anti-war protests?

[xerocs]

headline reads, "anti-war protests turn violent", isn't that what the fools are trying to get us to avoid.... I blush with shame for the people who have forgotten why they are allowed to protest... there are countries where civil disobedience will get you shot...

[masterofNone]

Did the protesters pull out weapons or was it the police? No one on this board has said anything against America or Democracy. I don't think anyone on this board has even said that War is a necessarily bad idea in every case.

I've seen people opposed to THIS war in THIS case, not to the troops who are laying their lives onthe line. If we can't be opposed to the policies of the administration... welll then the America you're fighting for doesn't exist.

[Red Princess]

i was watching video of what was going on in san francisco yesterday and it was protestors and people who disagreed with them beating each other up, there were no police in sight. i said the same thing, yelling at the tv 'what are you people doing? have you all completely missed the point?' !!!!

[xerocs]

case in point... "If we can't be opposed to the policies of the administration... welll then the America you're fighting for doesn't exist"... America was founded with a war...

... I wasn't there so I can't say who was the first to draw weapons... I am sure though that it wasn't the police... but to hell with the protesters anyway.... if they disagree with the president and the war then they can move to france and eat freedom fries... that is also a choice they are allowed to make... i was thinking about making a website where the americans that stand behind their country could contribute aid to the much needed air fare to deport the 1500 or so protesters who find it their duty to crowd streets and resort to violent temper tantrums to get their way... spoiled brats probably had daddies money buy them into berkley anyway.... i am not eating granola and taking three showers a day in protest of the protesters... i hope they like the horseshoe, hardened criminals will probably explain to them the joys of freedom....

[masterofNone]

you know, in the 6 month or so that I've been reading the posts on this board, I've never seen anyone resort to insults. No one is attacking you, xerocs.

[xerocs]

are you insulted?

[Red Princess]

i am a little insulted. it is my right as an american citizen to protest if my government is doing something i disagree with. if i protest it is not a rejection of the entire country, it the expression of my views. i concede that if there was no military protection i would probably not heve the right to protest. i give thanks to those who protect my rights. i do not however, give those people the right to take rights back if it annoys them.

thank you xerocs for protecting my right to annoy you. i know it sounds bizarre.....

[xerocs]

sorry... that was the yahoo travel spot for tickets to france....

http://travel.yahoo.com/

[masterofNone]

yep. I am half french and half german... which makes me all american as far as I'm concerned. That any other citizen would like to deport any other citizen for the crime of being passionate enough to speak out against the majority position... that gets me more than a little hot. Our countires strength is that freedom. You yourself point to the difference between our country and others where the protesters would be shot. Would you defend those other countries with your life? Those people that stand in the street today and voice their opinion are Patriots as much as anyone in uniform today. If you can't see that I'd be happier if you took off your uniform, walked to a bus stop and headed home... because you're not defending the America that we as a nation have fought for for 226 years.

[Red Princess]

ok ok ok we said what we had to say, can we kiss and make up now? xerocs is under a lot of stress and is understandably upset and feeling a lack of support, stress stress stress, it can be bad

[honeyb3655]

I cannot completely agree or disagree with the protests or the war. I am bothered that I am unable to "pick a side." But I feel strongly that the media has tainted the facts and I refuse to form an opinion based on ignorance or incorrect information. This is not a black and white issue, folks. I'm all for helping out a country that wants/needs help, but even the UN asked us to wait and I have yet to hear the Iraquis ask for the type of help we are dishing out...and I would like to add that I have never liked Little Bush nor do I like his administration and their actions during the elctions and thus far in his term--of this, I am SURE...I want to scream sometimes when I think about it and I wonder if protesting would help or at least help me to feel like I am not alone in my distaste for Little Bush, but I do not agree with violence.

I hear the San Diego protests last night were very mellow and peaceful (and 1 in 4 soldiers over there right now is based in San Diego). I wish that I could form an opinion on this issue, but maybe the point is to remain as open-minded as possible. (Meanwhile, to get completely off the topic, trucks are rolling through Alaska to begin drilling...did anyone catch that?)

[Red Princess]

oh man i hear that! i am also ambivalent about the situation, i hate war on principle but some days it feels like only a good ass kicking will make people listen to reason and i understand the oxymoron in that. i guess it is frustration, that we lose patience and resort to hitting instead of kissing. i also wonder about the information we are getting, i go to the BBC website when i am not too depressed to get a different perspective.

nyc, before you go off on me, i am not slamming the whole media organiztion. my life's philosophy is "says who?"

ok now you can go off, please be gentle

[Deviate]

screw "kissing" and "making up".

this has ticked me off more than anything said on this war to date.

people who disagree with this war have been tainted as "unpatriotic" and "unAmerican". i'm sorry, friend, but that is not so.

i believe myself to be one of the most patriotic and American of any person i know. not only have my ancestors lived here for centuries, but i also because believe, with the inner being of my soul, in my right to DISAGREE WITH WHOMEVER THE F*CK I WANT. i will defend that right to my death.

this country was not founded on war. a war was created by another country who did not want to allow us the freedoms we wanted. this country was founded on DISAGREEING with the GOVERNMENT.

our Bill of Rights states that we have the freedoms to speak our minds at any time and place. we are allowed to vote authorities out of office, to appeal unjust court decisions, to burn a flag. the country was founded on the basic belief that we may, at anytime, DISAGREE with the government.

never, once, do i recall ANYWHERE in the Constitution that, if we at any time DISAGREE with the government, that we must pack our bags and move to another country that is more pleasant.

it is naive to think that it is governmental policies alone that keep citizens in borders. if this were so then revolutions would never happen. instead there would just be population explosions in more popular countries.

this is my HOME, this is my FAMILY'S HOME and i will stay on the soil and shout until my lungs BLEED that i disagree with this war.

and it is my love for the SPIRIT of this country, it is my PATRIOTISM and my AMERICAN heart that drives me to do just as such.

you challenge my right to do so? you should move to another country. embrace the spirit of a government that does not allow its citizens to disagree.

i disagree with the policies of my government. but i love this country.

-s. leigh thompson

[masterofNone]

yep

[Deviate]

oh, btw, welcome HoneyB.

-st.

[Red Princess]

One of the things that truly bothered me as the bombs began dropping was in Saddam's speech he said that Bush refused genuine offers of peace from his camp. I thought yeah, it could be propaganda, but what if those offers were truly made, and because of an agenda, never were released or heard from outside of the White House because they would disable the justification of this war. That bothered me, a lot.


this is exactly my concern

[honeyb3655]

Originally posted by Deviate
oh, btw, welcome HoneyB.

-st.

Thanks D. This is the coolest thing.

I'm glad that there is a place where opinions can be used to color (share) our experiences (inside, or outside the lines). I found Ze looking for a distraction (I think I actaully put the word "Distraction" in my browser). I have been hooked since...And until this topic today, I have only been a silent observer.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading all of your thoughts on this matter. I was curious to know if anyone reading/posting here has actually been to any of these protests. What have you seen? What was it like?

[masterofNone]

he heeeeeee



want to have some real fun?



find your local country western station website board and start engaging folks in anti-war conversations. Drives the folks spectacularily crazy.

[masterofNone]

glad you didn't stay away too long, Mary Poppins.

[lapietra]

Mary Poppins - heh.

People used to call me that. :D

[amanda]

"Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress"
-Mohandas Gandhi

[Deviate]

so are digital watches...

-st.

[noxxville]

I think Dev already drove this point home, but I must also throw my two cents in.

Our right, our freedom to disagree with, to question and to challenge our government is the basis of our constitution. It was this belief that led to our country being born. Take away those things and we are no longer America. This does not mean that you are REQUIRED to disagree, to protest, or even to fight but it does requrie that your ARE free to do so. Those who think this unpatriotic have lost all sense of the vision that this country was founded upon. It is this exact freedom that also allows you to come onto this board and denounce people for their beliefs. It is the same freedom that allows people to call protesters "unpatriotic". It is the hand that is currently feeding you. Stop biting it.

This freedom applies to all. We often forget that, especially in times of prosperity and peace. When there aren't protests or uprising, this freedom is taken for granted. It is only when someone disagrees with a group speaking out that we have to remind people that this freedom exists.

This freedom is what allows our news to be on the air. It is what allows unions to protest. It is what allows soldiers families to tie yellow ribbons on their homes in support of their troops. It is what allows Puerto Ricans to have their flags flying high in the streets of chicago during parades. It allows you to call protesters unamerican. It allows Hugh Hefner to publish Playboy and Lisa Jervis to print Bitch magazine. It makes us free. It allows us to be human and speak out, even yell or cry about what we believe it means to be human. It is who we all are and who we all want our children to be. Free.

We are truly free when we can speak out in favor of or against our freedoms.

[masterofNone]

shock and awe.... (http://www.dodccrp.org/shockIndex.html) this is the manual written for the pentagon that created the concept of Shock and Awe...


...which sounds too close to a German Phrase from WWII - "Blitzkrieg" (Lightning War) for my comfort.

[zefrank]

Originally posted by xerocs
case in point... "If we can't be opposed to the policies of the administration... welll then the America you're fighting for doesn't exist"... America was founded with a war...


The issues of this war are complicated. Saddam is a bad person. He should not be in power. What we are doing, however, I urgently disagree with, and will be happy to write more on why specifically. However:

Please don't try to dumb this argument down into cheap slogans and conservative rhetoric. Sure, America was started by a war, but before that the soon-to-become Americans were engaged in numerous acts of civil disobedience, one of them being the Boston Tea Party...although in this day and age I'm sure that same act would be called terrorism. Civil disobedience is the means by which a population can fight against an authority that is unresponsive to vocal protest. Remember Colonial India, think of South Africa, remember Vietnam, think of the Civil Rights Movement.

The argument "If you don't like it, then leave" is shallow and childish, and I think we both know that. This country has the potential of greatness, and many of us have experienced moments of that greatness in our lives. The liberties afforded by the constitution of this nation are precious and worth fighting for, I believe that we all feel that as well. We that are protesting see that the policies of this administration are jeopardizing what we and our families have fought for, paid for and hoped for. There is a reason that free speech was mandated by the Constitution - the founders knew that open and vocal dissent is necessary to keep the nation from spiraling into an oppressive and unjust regime. I love what this country stands for - not what it currently is, but for what its founding principles hope to achieve.

The truth is that people like you do not afford us this right of free speech with your weapons and arrogance. We preserve it for you and your children by standing up to the constant assault of racism, class-ism and bigotry that assail us in every generation. If we leave, this country spirals into fear and hatred. "Why don't you just leave"??? That's what was said in parts of the South after the Emancipation. You are in shameful company.

[masterofNone]

I just posted a thread on the local C&W board asking if anybody would sell me their Dixie Chicks concert tickets since I'd just become a fan recently.

[amanda]

What I would like to know- are there movements of civil disobedence among the Iraqi people?

Genuine political and social change, change that has stayed through the course of time, has ALWAYS been the changes that have intiated from within.

I'm not talking about the American-pressured coup, but rather an Iraqi-CIVILIAN led movement toward regime change?

No political underscore here, I'm just curious...

[Zyle]

Originally posted by masterofNone
shock and awe.... (http://www.dodccrp.org/shockIndex.html) this is the manual written for the pentagon that created the concept of Shock and Awe...


...which sounds too close to a German Phrase from WWII - "Blitzkrieg" (Lightning War) for my comfort.

one of the british reporters actually called the strikes "blitzkrieg" last night. I nearly choked. It was entirely inappropriate on so many levels.

[dickieC]

I was at the London march yesterday, and my favourite banner was one saying "Peas not War". They had a packet of frozen peas taped to a placard. Hahahaha

[Red Princess]

in the NPR catalogue they used to have a t shirt that said 'whirled peas', you might be able to get one on line