This is controversy?

[xerocs]

BANGKOK (Reuters) - A controversy erupted at a global AIDS conference on Monday over whether abstaining from sex or using condoms was more effective to prevent the disease.


what part of this is controversial???

Full Story (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=2&u=/nm/20040712/ts_nm/aids_dc)

[masterofNone]

i think it reflects a general denial of the fact that fvcking seems to be popular with the kids.

[daverbee]

I like this quote by one of the delegates best:

Helene Gayle, head of AIDS programs for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, said one approach was not better than the other.

"The debate is more distracting than it needs to be because we need to get on to the business of saving lives."

[priceyfatprude]

Instead, he called for "optimal relationships based on love and trust instead of institutionalized mistrust which is what the condom is all about."LOL. Ok. "I dont trust you. Put on a condom." I'll have to remember that, it's a great line. "In an age where five million people are newly infected each year and women and girls too often do not have the choice to abstain, an abstinence until marriage program is not only irresponsible, it's really inhumane," Lee said. What if they don't want to abstain?But Ted Green, a member of Bush's council on AIDS, said programs aimed at changing sexual behavior were not obtaining funding. He also questioned the focus on condoms.


"If you are telling me that people can't stop AIDS unless they buy a product. I simply don't agree with that," he said. No wonder people are dying. "I am a sexual being, but I recognize HIV/AIDS is a killer," said Onaba. "I will wait until my wedding night." Famous last words, Britney.

[Hermione]

abstinence for life!!

I used to say that.. that is before I knew what it meant..

[xfox]

Would education be a start?

[masterofNone]

then we'd have smart fvckers with hiv.

[xfox]

Hey MoN, I happen to know a doc who is attending this conference. Anytime they can't do their research at home and communicate by the web, you know it's a party.

Too many middlemen.

[masterofNone]

and nero fiddled while rome burned.

[xfox]

Aren't we just the one...

[masterofNone]

well i was listening to these stories tonight and to one about the chinese hiv epidemic and the reporters kept talking about the "stigma of aids" and all i could think was, 'fvcking reagan!' so i'm a little testy about millions of women and children dying because a moronic actor couldn't see past his homophobia to treat the plague of the 20th century as a disease instead of a punishment from the christian god. personally i don't believe god cares where we put our penises, but hey that's me. and so, i was thinking, this "stygma of aids" was wholly born by the religious right. and they say the two parties are so alike.


so. excuse me for not marveling at the parties of researchers and policy makers as they discuss education as a solution.

[xfox]

And curing disease is / was Reagan's job?

If government gets any bigger there won't be room for industry.

If you were president, MoN, what would task would you take on first?

[Hyakujo's Fox]

Originally posted by xerocs
what part of this is controversial???


That people are once again compromising the fight against AIDS to push their religious beliefs?

[masterofNone]

Originally posted by xfox
And curing disease is / was Reagan's job?

If government gets any bigger there won't be room for industry.

If you were president, MoN, what would task would you take on first?

it is certainly not the job of the president to ignore a growing epidemic because he doesn't approve of it's victims' choices. if the disease in question only affected women, how quickly would he have reacted to save his "mommy?" it is not the roll of industry to direct the efforts and the funding of national health organizations such as the cdc. and finally, if i had been president during those years i would have reacted to the growing deaths of all of those young men as i would if they were my uncles and my brothers and my sons... which they were. i would, quite simply, have reacted to their illness and their death with something the religious right seems incapable of, human decency and kindness. hell, even forgiveness, the essential christian virtue, is beyond them.

[topcat]

true words masterofnone

[zenbabe]

If you play you pay, unfortunatly..there are a ton of people that lack the education about STD's..seriously, there are countries that think if you rape a baby it will cure you of HIV!! WTF is that!?!??!?!?!?!

Masturbation is always cool in my book, but people need to know the facts. They don't and that is the problem.

[madasacutsnake]

A bit off the topic but it reminded me of this story from Bryce Courtenay's April Fools' Day. Bryce Courtenay’s son Damon died from AIDS and this is Bryce's description of a missionary's hospital visit to Damon.

"The woman visiting Damon implied that God was ready to forgive him and take him, despite his condition as a born again child. All he had to do in return was to repent and accept the Lord Jesus into his heart.

Damon, who had listened patiently to what turned out to be a rather long-winded ration, finally managed t halt the flow of God's messenger by asking her f he could ask questions. She immediately agreed. And, if suspect, in self-defence against the Niagara Falls of verbiage, he asked her whether she would try to answer his questions with s simple yes or no. Once again, the Lord's Witness readily agreed. No doubt, in the witnessing business, questions mean progress on the path to salvation. A bit like a salesman closing a sale in a used car lot; when the prospect starts to ask questions you can begin to wind him in.

"Do you believe homosexuality is a sin?" Damon asked.

"Well, the Bible is quite specific about this, it says sodomy...."

"Please, a simple yes or no, ma'am".

The lady at his bedside paused momentarily, then made a little expostulating sound to thump home her conviction, "Yes" she said.

"If it is a sin, then is AIDS God's punishment for this sin?"

"God's mercy and compassion is everlasting and His understanding......."

Again, Damon cut her short, "Ma'am, please, just yes or o". Damon always fancied himself as a bit of a lawyer and secretly took pride in his logical an incisive mind.

"Well yes! I have to say that I believe it is". She took another sharp breath, "As I was trying to say, the Bible is quite explicit about sodomy, it is a sin and God says, 'The wages of sin is death!""

"Well f sex between consenting adults is a sin fro which God has sent AIDS as His terrible punishment, what do you think about sex between an adult male and a non-consenting child?"

The lady was clearly shocked by the question, but Damon rammed it home. "Particularly incest, sex between a father and his daughter. Would that not be even a worse sin in the eyes of God?"

The lady witnessing for the Lord, shocked at Damon's directness, failed to see the all too obvious trap, "Well yes, of course it's a sin! A terrible sin!"

No, that wasn't my question, is it a worse sin? A bigger sin in the eyes of God?"

The lady paused, looking down at her hands, conscious now that she'd been led into a trap, finally she looked up, "Yes, I suppose sp1". She appeared to be angry, she had lost control of the situation and was unable to find an apposite quote from the New Testament to cover her confusion, her training obviously hadn't covered incest.

"Well then, why doesn't God send a terrible disease down to infect the father rapist of the sexually assaulted child?" Damon asked.

The woman had already started to gather her tracts together and dipping into her handbag she produced a boiled lolly wrapped in a twist of cellophane and, first putting a tract down on the bedside unit, she placed the lolly on the tract. Then she tucked her Bible under her arm and left with the words, "Goodbye Damon, I will pray to the Lord for you"

"Thank-you'" Damon said. "Thank-you for coming" He was not being a smartarse, though he was probably feeling quite pleased with himself. As a mark, she was too easy and he could afford to be charitable.

The Lord's witness wasn't quite through, she paused at the door, her lips pursed, "'I am not mocked', saith the Lord!" She turned and was gone, her heels making a squeaking sound on the runner corridor as she retreated. Her first brush with AIDS o doubt confirmed her attitude towards homosexuals.

Damon understood completely that gay men, by being rejected by the community and sometimes even their families, carried and extra load of emotional pain. He wanted to make people understand that their rejection was cruel and senseless."

By the way, Damon was a haemophiliac who contracted HIV through a blood transfusion. I reckon he was a champion.

[xfox]

Look. The gvmt wants taxpayers. The more the merrier. I have said over and over women rule the world because nobody would be here without them. (Forget cloning). We have the freedom to choose.

It is woman's responsibility to choose wisely, or not at all. Men have the same choice with each other, or women. It doesn't matter to me. How AIDS came about is a mystery. Wasn't it Haitians who introduced it in the US? It's a sad fact.

Opinions differ.

[Smartypants]

Originally posted by xfox
And curing disease is / was Reagan's job?

If government gets any bigger there won't be room for industry.

If you were president, MoN, what would task would you take on first?

I was told by my smarter friends here that I should be civil, so I'll try to contain myself here and not tell you, xfox, exactly how big a boob I think you are.

I think moN has done a good enough job of explaining why the leader of the free world, the most powerful man on earth, had a responsibility to help stop AIDS but didn't. Yes, it was his job.

As for your anti-big-government line, please tell me why you are still clutching to this tired right wing platitude! Sheesh!

Government is bigger now than it ever was under previous administrations that believed that the U.S. government's role was to help Americans in need, to educate children, to protect citizens from disease. Smaller governments than we have today have served to assure fairness in housing and job opportunities, to make automobile and air travel safer, to lower infant mortality rates, to raise families out of poverty, to keep our shores safe from hostile invaders, to help our allies in need, to make workplaces safe, to rid tenements of lead paint, to learn about the universe we live in, to bring electricity to rural areas, to provide lunches to school children, to end slavery, to set an example for other nations of how people can come together in a democratic society and reach greatness. (Do you really want me to go on...?)

Industry, without government oversight, has consistently proven itself untrustworthy, and like the tyrannical system from which we freed ourselves in the 18th century, would nearly always subjugate workers' basic rights, the environment, and the public safety in the interest of its profits if not for the protection that only a benevolent and honest government can provide.

xfox, government is already big -- bigger than ever -- but the big government we have is hardly the enemy of industry whose wellbeing so concerns you. What we need is a government of/for/by the people again, that can help maintain an environment for industry to thrive while putting the interests of America's citizens first.

Stop with the foolish repetition of the "right's" blame of government for this nation's ills. Stop with the boo-hooing for poor industry, whose CEO's and shareholders are thriving just fine (even though the workers who make it possible share little of its spoils). Start working to bring back a government that respects the rights of its citizens and the founding principles of our democracy.

Or else go find some other country (I understand there are still a few in the Middle East, Asia, and Latin America) where it's not such a blatant violation of national principles to let an elite minority run amok at the expense of the citizenry's well-being, while government either abets it or turns a blind eye.