we weep for humanity

[Willow Sylph]

It wasn't an "accident," nor was it deemed to be by a court of law. She was sentenced to prison for 2nd degree murder which the judged called, I quote: "a particularly heinious crime. Because she involved a child in the incident." The child being the other adopted child that she forced to sit on top of the smaller child being punished.

edit to add: As I mentioned, it was also discovered during the trial, upon questioning all 12 kids on the stand, that the woman was phsyically and emotionally abusing her kids and, on numerous occasions and in numerous ways, tortured all 12 of the kids.

[Large Marge]

Originally Posted by Aphrodite

Yes. She had an accident based on some really bad choices. A terrible thing happened, but it could have happened to anyone.

Accidentally killing a person with your car could happen to anyone. Intentionally drinking and then driving and killing a person - that's not something that happens to people who don't drink and drive. And that's not a "bad choice": That's a crime she should pay for. The child she killed is DEAD FOREVER. What about that child's parents? Or was she the parent?

[Spicy Jack]

Originally Posted by Large Marge

"-Ability to be financially responsible to pay ones bills (no debt), to provide proper food and clothing, and to make sure the child has access to education.
-Creating a safe home enviroment, or having a place to call home for that matter.
-The ability to raise ones children. If you (and your spouse) work all day, who is raising your children?"

These are based on economic status, and so I would argue they are discriminatory.

I believe, that if people use the resources available to them, and make responsible decisions, that all of those can be atainable. Welfare, and whatnot, when use properly, can be benifitial. One might not be able to buy wide screen tvs, the latest DVD's and new cars, or even ever go out to dinner or buy a single luxury item, but they can clothe and feed their children.

Financial responsiblity is one of the largest factors. Unfortunalty, in America, credit card debt is outrageous. I can't understand why anyone has anything they can not afford. Americans think they "deserve" certain things, and the world owes them stuff that they didn't earn.

The most important part of the parenting program should be financial responsibility. The ability to budget to live within ones means.

[topcat]

the most important part of parenting is to make sure your child knows that they are loved

[Spicy Jack]

Originally Posted by topcat

the most important part of parenting is to make sure your child knows that they are loved

You always hear how much the parent loves their child and how they only hit them for their own good though.

Good point, but doesn't solve the bad parenting problem.

[Aphrodite]

I am sure that accidents can happen to both sober and drunk people. Her choice to get behind the wheel was definately a bad choice. Perhaps it was the first sip of her drink that was the really bad choice.
This ficticious woman didn't want to hit anyone, it wasn't on her agenda. It was a crime in combining those two bad choices. It was an accident that she killed someone while commiting her crime. It has nothing to do with her ability to parent.

My point was that, once we begin profiling people for selection and deselection purposes for parenting, then it will wash out into other arenas. What other uses could a government have for profiling all of it's citizens? Hmmm can anyone think of any? Anyone?

[Willow Sylph]

Originally Posted by Aphrodite

I am sure that accidents can happen to both sober and drunk people. Her choice to get behind the wheel was definately a bad choice. Perhaps it was the first sip of her drink that was the really bad choice.
This ficticious woman didn't want to hit anyone, it wasn't on her agenda. It was a crime in combining those two bad choices. It was an accident that she killed someone while commiting her crime. It has nothing to do with her ability to parent.

My point was that, once we begin profiling people for selection and deselection purposes for parenting, then it will wash out into other arenas. What other uses could a government have for profiling all of it's citizens? Hmmm can anyone think of any? Anyone?

Aphro, you were talking about a different case in point? I thought you were responding to what I said. Sorry 'bout that.

[Frieda]

Originally Posted by Aphrodite

I am sure that accidents can happen to both sober and drunk people. Her choice to get behind the wheel was definately a bad choice. Perhaps it was the first sip of her drink that was the really bad choice.
This ficticious woman didn't want to hit anyone, it wasn't on her agenda. It was a crime in combining those two bad choices. It was an accident that she killed someone while commiting her crime. It has nothing to do with her ability to parent.

My point was that, once we begin profiling people for selection and deselection purposes for parenting, then it will wash out into other arenas. What other uses could a government have for profiling all of it's citizens? Hmmm can anyone think of any? Anyone?

i completely agree with the above, i fear the same.

[Aphrodite]

No problem Willow. What the woman in your case did was a heinous and intentioned act of harm to all parties. She needs to be put somewhere away from anyone she can harm, and more psychiatric help than I could imagine.

[Frieda]

john wayne bobbitt is on tv

[Frieda]

would you consider lorena bobbitt a person that can take good care of children, despite the fact that she cut off her husband's dick?

[priceyfatprude]

Originally Posted by Spicy Jack

I believe, that if people use the resources available to them, and make responsible decisions, that all of those can be atainable. Welfare, and whatnot, when use properly, can be benifitial. One might not be able to buy wide screen tvs, the latest DVD's and new cars, or even ever go out to dinner or buy a single luxury item, but they can clothe and feed their children.

My mom tried to do this. We were on the public dole for the first 6 years of my life. She lived very frugally, I can't remember ever eating out or anything extra; anything like that came from my grandparents. She scrimped & saved enough money to be able to go back to school full time when I would be in school full time, to cut down on childcare costs.

When AFDC found out she had saved all that money to go back to school with, they cut her benefits. She was unable to go back to school, and if I remember correctly, was told to find a nice guy to marry?!?!?!?! Granted this was in 1980, but still. WTF? Being penalized for trying to get out of the system? She would've been rewarded by this same system w/more money had she gotten pregnant again. *head reeling*

I think everyone has the potential to be a good parent. But the guy in this article needs to fry in hell.

[Large Marge]

Originally Posted by priceyfatprude

My mom tried to do this. We were on the public dole for the first 6 years of my life. She lived very frugally, I can't remember ever eating out or anything extra; anything like that came from my grandparents. She scrimped & saved enough money to be able to go back to school full time when I would be in school full time, to cut down on childcare costs.

When AFDC found out she had saved all that money to go back to school with, they cut her benefits. She was unable to go back to school, and if I remember correctly, was told to find a nice guy to marry?!?!?!?!

OMG!! Our welfare system is seriously messed up.

[Large Marge]

Originally Posted by Frieda

would you consider lorena bobbitt a person that can take good care of children, despite the fact that she cut off her husband's dick?

That would depend on her test results ...

Off-subject: I have to think that John did something to provoke her into such a horrific act (not that it makes it ok!!), but I don't know the whole story. She was psychologically evaluated, wasn't she? What was the outcome?

[priceyfatprude]

Originally Posted by Large Marge

That would depend on her test results ...

Off-subject: I have to think that John did something to provoke her into such a horrific act (not that it makes it ok!!), but I don't know the whole story. She was psychologically evaluated, wasn't she? What was the outcome?

Alleged forced sex, on a nightly basis.