anti-war protests? - Page 2 - ZEFRANK.COM

Red Princess · 03-21-2003, 05:06 PM

One of the things that truly bothered me as the bombs began dropping was in Saddam's speech he said that Bush refused genuine offers of peace from his camp. I thought yeah, it could be propaganda, but what if those offers were truly made, and because of an agenda, never were released or heard from outside of the White House because they would disable the justification of this war. That bothered me, a lot.

this is exactly my concern

honeyb3655 · 03-21-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deviate
oh, btw, welcome HoneyB.

-st.

Thanks D. This is the coolest thing.

I'm glad that there is a place where opinions can be used to color (share) our experiences (inside, or outside the lines). I found Ze looking for a distraction (I think I actaully put the word "Distraction" in my browser). I have been hooked since...And until this topic today, I have only been a silent observer.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading all of your thoughts on this matter. I was curious to know if anyone reading/posting here has actually been to any of these protests. What have you seen? What was it like?

masterofNone · 03-21-2003, 06:23 PM

he heeeeeee

want to have some real fun?

find your local country western station website board and start engaging folks in anti-war conversations. Drives the folks spectacularily crazy.

masterofNone · 03-21-2003, 07:05 PM

glad you didn't stay away too long, Mary Poppins.

lapietra · 03-21-2003, 10:54 PM

Mary Poppins - heh.

People used to call me that.

amanda · 03-22-2003, 04:48 AM

"Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress"
-Mohandas Gandhi

Deviate · 03-22-2003, 03:42 PM

so are digital watches...

-st.

noxxville · 03-22-2003, 07:31 PM

I think Dev already drove this point home, but I must also throw my two cents in.

Our right, our freedom to disagree with, to question and to challenge our government is the basis of our constitution. It was this belief that led to our country being born. Take away those things and we are no longer America. This does not mean that you are REQUIRED to disagree, to protest, or even to fight but it does requrie that your ARE free to do so. Those who think this unpatriotic have lost all sense of the vision that this country was founded upon. It is this exact freedom that also allows you to come onto this board and denounce people for their beliefs. It is the same freedom that allows people to call protesters "unpatriotic". It is the hand that is currently feeding you. Stop biting it.

This freedom applies to all. We often forget that, especially in times of prosperity and peace. When there aren't protests or uprising, this freedom is taken for granted. It is only when someone disagrees with a group speaking out that we have to remind people that this freedom exists.

This freedom is what allows our news to be on the air. It is what allows unions to protest. It is what allows soldiers families to tie yellow ribbons on their homes in support of their troops. It is what allows Puerto Ricans to have their flags flying high in the streets of chicago during parades. It allows you to call protesters unamerican. It allows Hugh Hefner to publish Playboy and Lisa Jervis to print Bitch magazine. It makes us free. It allows us to be human and speak out, even yell or cry about what we believe it means to be human. It is who we all are and who we all want our children to be. Free.

We are truly free when we can speak out in favor of or against our freedoms.

masterofNone · 03-22-2003, 10:58 PM

shock and awe.... this is the manual written for the pentagon that created the concept of Shock and Awe...

...which sounds too close to a German Phrase from WWII - "Blitzkrieg" (Lightning War) for my comfort.

zefrank · 03-23-2003, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xerocs
case in point... "If we can't be opposed to the policies of the administration... welll then the America you're fighting for doesn't exist"... America was founded with a war...

The issues of this war are complicated. Saddam is a bad person. He should not be in power. What we are doing, however, I urgently disagree with, and will be happy to write more on why specifically. However:

Please don't try to dumb this argument down into cheap slogans and conservative rhetoric. Sure, America was started by a war, but before that the soon-to-become Americans were engaged in numerous acts of civil disobedience, one of them being the Boston Tea Party...although in this day and age I'm sure that same act would be called terrorism. Civil disobedience is the means by which a population can fight against an authority that is unresponsive to vocal protest. Remember Colonial India, think of South Africa, remember Vietnam, think of the Civil Rights Movement.

The argument "If you don't like it, then leave" is shallow and childish, and I think we both know that. This country has the potential of greatness, and many of us have experienced moments of that greatness in our lives. The liberties afforded by the constitution of this nation are precious and worth fighting for, I believe that we all feel that as well. We that are protesting see that the policies of this administration are jeopardizing what we and our families have fought for, paid for and hoped for. There is a reason that free speech was mandated by the Constitution - the founders knew that open and vocal dissent is necessary to keep the nation from spiraling into an oppressive and unjust regime. I love what this country stands for - not what it currently is, but for what its founding principles hope to achieve.

The truth is that people like you do not afford us this right of free speech with your weapons and arrogance. We preserve it for you and your children by standing up to the constant assault of racism, class-ism and bigotry that assail us in every generation. If we leave, this country spirals into fear and hatred. "Why don't you just leave"??? That's what was said in parts of the South after the Emancipation. You are in shameful company.

masterofNone · 03-23-2003, 01:52 AM

I just posted a thread on the local C&W board asking if anybody would sell me their Dixie Chicks concert tickets since I'd just become a fan recently.

amanda · 03-23-2003, 02:00 AM

What I would like to know- are there movements of civil disobedence among the Iraqi people?

Genuine political and social change, change that has stayed through the course of time, has ALWAYS been the changes that have intiated from within.

I'm not talking about the American-pressured coup, but rather an Iraqi-CIVILIAN led movement toward regime change?

No political underscore here, I'm just curious...

Zyle · 03-23-2003, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by masterofNone
shock and awe.... this is the manual written for the pentagon that created the concept of Shock and Awe...

...which sounds too close to a German Phrase from WWII - "Blitzkrieg" (Lightning War) for my comfort.

one of the british reporters actually called the strikes "blitzkrieg" last night. I nearly choked. It was entirely inappropriate on so many levels.

dickieC · 03-23-2003, 10:06 AM

I was at the London march yesterday, and my favourite banner was one saying "Peas not War". They had a packet of frozen peas taped to a placard. Hahahaha

Red Princess · 03-23-2003, 01:59 PM

in the NPR catalogue they used to have a t shirt that said 'whirled peas', you might be able to get one on line

03-21-2003, 05:06 PM	#16
Red Princess thread soiler Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: san diego Posts: 4,810	One of the things that truly bothered me as the bombs began dropping was in Saddam's speech he said that Bush refused genuine offers of peace from his camp. I thought yeah, it could be propaganda, but what if those offers were truly made, and because of an agenda, never were released or heard from outside of the White House because they would disable the justification of this war. That bothered me, a lot. this is exactly my concern __________________ snarky peep

03-21-2003, 10:54 PM	#20
lapietra half baked Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: just ducky Posts: 12,078	Mary Poppins - heh. People used to call me that. __________________ “As long as the world is turning and spinning, we're gonna be dizzy and we're gonna make mistakes.” ~ Mel Brooks

03-22-2003, 07:31 PM	#23
noxxville Disco Maven Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NC...seriously....how did that happen? Posts: 2,024	I think Dev already drove this point home, but I must also throw my two cents in. Our right, our freedom to disagree with, to question and to challenge our government is the basis of our constitution. It was this belief that led to our country being born. Take away those things and we are no longer America. This does not mean that you are REQUIRED to disagree, to protest, or even to fight but it does requrie that your ARE free to do so. Those who think this unpatriotic have lost all sense of the vision that this country was founded upon. It is this exact freedom that also allows you to come onto this board and denounce people for their beliefs. It is the same freedom that allows people to call protesters "unpatriotic". It is the hand that is currently feeding you. Stop biting it. This freedom applies to all. We often forget that, especially in times of prosperity and peace. When there aren't protests or uprising, this freedom is taken for granted. It is only when someone disagrees with a group speaking out that we have to remind people that this freedom exists. This freedom is what allows our news to be on the air. It is what allows unions to protest. It is what allows soldiers families to tie yellow ribbons on their homes in support of their troops. It is what allows Puerto Ricans to have their flags flying high in the streets of chicago during parades. It allows you to call protesters unamerican. It allows Hugh Hefner to publish Playboy and Lisa Jervis to print Bitch magazine. It makes us free. It allows us to be human and speak out, even yell or cry about what we believe it means to be human. It is who we all are and who we all want our children to be. Free. We are truly free when we can speak out in favor of or against our freedoms. __________________ Call that guy butter because he's on a roll!

03-23-2003, 10:06 AM	#29
dickieC Professional ZeMonkey Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Back in Oxford Posts: 1,841	I was at the London march yesterday, and my favourite banner was one saying "Peas not War". They had a packet of frozen peas taped to a placard. Hahahaha __________________ "Why do I keep falling in love with every woman who shows me the slightest attention?" Joel, ESSM

03-23-2003, 01:59 PM	#30
Red Princess thread soiler Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: san diego Posts: 4,810	in the NPR catalogue they used to have a t shirt that said 'whirled peas', you might be able to get one on line __________________ snarky peep

03-21-2003, 06:23 PM	#18
masterofNone ________ Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,131	he heeeeeee want to have some real fun? find your local country western station website board and start engaging folks in anti-war conversations. Drives the folks spectacularily crazy.

03-21-2003, 07:05 PM	#19
masterofNone ________ Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,131	glad you didn't stay away too long, Mary Poppins.

03-22-2003, 04:48 AM	#21
amanda old s'cool Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,426	"Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress" -Mohandas Gandhi

03-22-2003, 03:42 PM	#22
Deviate Butt-F***ing the World Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: the other side of normal Posts: 5,863	so are digital watches... -st.

03-22-2003, 10:58 PM	#24
masterofNone ________ Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,131	shock and awe.... this is the manual written for the pentagon that created the concept of Shock and Awe... ...which sounds too close to a German Phrase from WWII - "Blitzkrieg" (Lightning War) for my comfort.

03-23-2003, 01:52 AM	#26
masterofNone ________ Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,131	I just posted a thread on the local C&W board asking if anybody would sell me their Dixie Chicks concert tickets since I'd just become a fan recently.

03-23-2003, 02:00 AM	#27
amanda old s'cool Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,426	What I would like to know- are there movements of civil disobedence among the Iraqi people? Genuine political and social change, change that has stayed through the course of time, has ALWAYS been the changes that have intiated from within. I'm not talking about the American-pressured coup, but rather an Iraqi-CIVILIAN led movement toward regime change? No political underscore here, I'm just curious...

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