is fascism sexy?

[Alighieri]

Originally Posted by Brynn

He had trouble with the next part and I had to ask a lot of questions here. What happened? What was it like? Describe it. What do you think it was?

"Just imagine what something like that - something with no goodness in it whatsoever, would be. As we stood there, it was as if a creeping blackness was oozing from the ground itself, it was everywhere, as if everything was covered in blood. And if we stayed there any longer, we ourselves would get infected with it. It was coming up from the ground and all around. I don't believe in Satan, but if anything was ever satanic, this was. Someone had definitely been tortured and murdered there. Maybe a lot of people. I felt like screaming."

He said it was the most tangibly evil thing he or his roommate had ever encountered, and an overwhelming sense of self-preservation overtook them at the same time. They both independently decided to run at the same moment. They high-tailed it back to where the girls were supposed to have been waiting. The girls had left already, and they were all scattered.
They spent the next hour calling for the girls, who were making their way down the hill in complete darkness. Once down, everyone headed straight home, completely shaken. They managed to call the girls once they got home to make sure they'd made it okay. The girls didn't want to see them, didn't want them to check on them. The guys never did hook up with them again, nor did they try. As hungry as they'd been, they found that neither of them could eat that night.

I asked if he knew of any religious groups had ever gone up to that site to try to exorcise it or pray over it or bless it or cleanse it in any way. My pacifist husband told me that what it needed was to be nuked. He did find out while he was there that a lot of people in Heidelburg knew about the place, that it was an open secret. No one ever talked about it, and people that my husband spoke to about it could not believe they had actually gone up there at night. Apparently it was sitting on a very valuable piece of land that for years developers had tried to make into something, but all attempts to turn it into something usable were fruitless, and sometimes ended in tragedy. People spoke about it as if it were truly cursed, and stayed clear of it.

So here was a case of some guys who thought a place like that would be a sexy spot to "do it," but the reality proved to be more than they could handle. I challenge anyone who thinks this s*** is sexy, go find this place and try to do what they did.

I would like to point out that the phenomenon you describe is the same thing that happens to people watching a scary movie or in a "haunted" house. The mind plays tricks on us. When we think something is there our mind can imagine it. I am not discounting that Hitler was evil, he was. But he was not supernatural. Just as there is not curse on the Pharohs tomb, that place is not cursed either.

-Alighieri.

[craig johnston]

hmmm, interesting points. i think the comparison with people wearing communist symbols on their t-shirts misses an important aspect, which is that no-one does that to be sexy. you don't find people dressing up in soviet uniforms to go to fetish clubs etc (believe me, i've researched this!).
yes, i can understand the power/control thing, but does that have to be played out by associating yourself with the most evil political movement the world has ever known?
i only just found out about the hugo boss thing. good job it's not an issue for us paupers.

[Alighieri]

Originally Posted by craig johnston

hmmm, interesting points. i think the comparison with people wearing communist symbols on their t-shirts misses an important aspect, which is that no-one does that to be sexy. you don't find people dressing up in soviet uniforms to go to fetish clubs etc (believe me, i've researched this!).
yes, i can understand the power/control thing, but does that have to be played out by associating yourself with the most evil political movement the world has ever known?
i only just found out about the hugo boss thing. good job it's not an issue for us paupers.

Agreed, few wear communist symbols to be sexy, but they wear them and we as a society barely even take notice, where we revile at the thought of the symbols the Nazi stole from other cultures and tainted with their evil. And as luck would have it I know of a few people who do have Soviet uniforms that dress up in them.

I am not sure if you check the history that the Nazi's are the most evil, that is part of my point. The Soviet and Chinese communists have sent many more people to their death than did the Nazi's. I think in Western Culture we are taught that Germany was the ultimate evil and we accept it since we fought a war against them, where we didn't fight a war with USSR and have yet to need to war with China.

Power is sexy and the Nazi uniform has always represented total power. Even in movies today (V for Vendetta comes to mind) authoritarian power is represented by a similar uniform, much like American police uniforms.

-Alighieri

[12"razormix]

Originally Posted by Alighieri

Power is sexy

i'm curious - is that a result of your research or your personal opinion (or both?)

[Avalon]

Alighieri
Here is a book for you to read..I am sure you will find something of interest for you somewhere in the pages, though I do not think it will be sexy.


Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time
By Michael Shermer

http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0805070893&id=oZpEZuO7o-IC&pg=PR8&lpg=PR7&dq=number+of+people+killed+by+th e+nazis&sig=cHFukGp72gx74Xjlo7RxrmPXIvQ


Power is sexy? All power or just certain powers? Like..Donald Trump; he is powerful..you think he is sexy? *shudder*
Superpowers? ( Wolverine = SEXY----Hitler = NO! ) Or is it power over life and death that you find to be a turn on? Please educate me as I base sexiness on silly things like a nice smile and good teeth, kindness, similar interests, beautiful eyes, nice body. (This is, perhaps, how I ended up marrying a handsome, yet poor, man.)


While someone wearing a uniform may be sexy, I do not find the uniform itself a reason to bed someone. It should be the person you find attractive, the inner being, not the trappings. This is just me, but I gotta tell ya...I am happy and never had to question whether what I find attractive/sexy should be considered correct.

[Alighieri]

Originally Posted by Avalon

Alighieri
Here is a book for you to read..I am sure you will find something of interest for you somewhere in the pages, though I do not think it will be sexy.


Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time
By Michael Shermer

http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0805070893&id=oZpEZuO7o-IC&pg=PR8&lpg=PR7&dq=number+of+people+killed+by+th e+nazis&sig=cHFukGp72gx74Xjlo7RxrmPXIvQ


Power is sexy? All power or just certain powers? Like..Donald Trump; he is powerful..you think he is sexy? *shudder*
Superpowers? ( Wolverine = SEXY----Hitler = NO! ) Or is it power over life and death that you find to be a turn on? Please educate me as I base sexiness on silly things like a nice smile and good teeth, kindness, similar interests, beautiful eyes, nice body. (This is, perhaps, how I ended up marrying a handsome, yet poor, man.)


While someone wearing a uniform may be sexy, I do not find the uniform itself a reason to bed someone. It should be the person you find attractive, the inner being, not the trappings. This is just me, but I gotta tell ya...I am happy and never had to question whether what I find attractive/sexy should be considered correct.

Thank you for the recommendation for my reading list. I may very well put in on my list. Though if your point was to be made by the "Holocaust denier" section of the book, I am afraid your point would be for naught as I don't denigh that the Holocaust happened or was horrific.

To a great many people, maybe not everyone (like yourself), find power sexy. "The" Donald is rarely without an attractive lady friend on his arm, to use your example. I am male so men rarely rate as sexy for me. If we are to address this to me personally, I find feminine power sexy and I enjoy friendships with powerful men. As to Hitler, along with Eva Braun, he had several female companions who must have thought he was attractive in some way. In most historical accounts of Hitler, when they discussed him personally, he was normally described as a very charismatic and likeable fellow. Much the same as when a serial killer is caught, many people said they never suspected that person because he was so nice.

Some people would tell you that the power over life and death is a turn on, I am not one of them. You have mentioned that you find other things attractive in men, which is fine. But other people do find power sexy like you think a smile is sexy. There is nothing wrong with either, just different. And again I agree with you that the uniform shouldn't be the only reason you bed someone, but that uniform might make someone more (or less) attractive to a potential mate.


Cheers,
Alighieri

[Brynn]

Kind of like the girl at the party who immediately asks the guy what kind of car he drives, or declares that she will "only date men who drive Saturns/Corvettes/Mercedes...(blah blah blah I'm stupid)!" I guess .

i think it's rather naive at this point in our history to just shrug at the implications that the swastika has taken on and say "it's just a symbol." Before, the swastika was an ancient symbol of life, yes. So what? The Nazis reversed the direction and made it a symbol of absolute evil. That's just the reality. To use the symbol today when the Holocaust is still fresh in the global psyche is nothing less than an act of belligerance, and to pretend it isn't belies a kind of cultural blindness. Nothing wrong with a "military look". But that which is specifically nazi is problematic.


I don't think it can be disputed that many people in all walks of life are drawn to taboo and think it's sexy simply because it's "forbidden." I guess in a world where all other perversions have been exhausted, nazi chic is just the latest shocking thing to apply to a desensitized sense of sexuality, not to mention a huge need for attention, negative or otherwise. I'd prefer not to have to rub shoulders with it, and admit to feeling contemptuous when I see it in a club, but if someone wants to look like a complete moron, it's none of my business. If it gets someone's rocks off to wear it, well, life is difficult enough already - let 'em. But societal acceptance of the practice isn't what the wearer is going for anyway.

Just curious - did you select your avatar just for this thread? Bit of tongue-in-cheek humor? After saying all that above, I do find the image at the very least appropriate to the discussion, anyway. Welcome.

[Alighieri]

Originally Posted by 12"razormix

i'm curious - is that a result of your research or your personal opinion (or both?)

Both.