ZEFRANK.COM - message board  

Go Back   ZEFRANK.COM - message board > DEBATE HALL
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 85 votes, 4.86 average. Display Modes
Old 02-16-2005, 02:36 PM   #16
Saxifrage
monkey
 
Saxifrage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Angband
Posts: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig johnston
^^^^^
it's just because he's your bro pfp.
they're prolly jealous or something.


ok, i got a question: what about dinosaurs? why aren't they in
the bible? clytie said something about leviathan but i thought
that was a whale. even if it was a dino, it's pretty scant mention
for a whole array of huge lizard creatures who were, according
to the bible, co-existing with humans for quite a while.

ps i like this thread, and think you're very brave. there are lots
of things i've always wanted to ask a christian and i look forward
to hearing your answers. i do have one tip though, and that is,
please try not to sound so self righteous and smug. it's a common
problem with those chosen by our lord that they naturally think
they're better than all us heathens. but it does grate somewhat.
ok, just a thought.
I want to answer the dinosaur question as I was taught in the church that I grew up in.

The dinosaurs were a result of the turbulance of the battle between the angels loyal to god and the angels loyal to lucifer. They were rendered extinct by the destruction when lucifer was hurled to earth after his defeat. I never bought this idea but it did sound pretty cool.
__________________
The Dude abides.
Saxifrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 02:45 PM   #17
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
well, i'm still not convinced.
saxi - your answer is a bit too wack.
clytie - the fire breathing bothers me. ok, the behemoth could be, like, a mammoth or something, although there's no mention of the trunk. but that other thing is just a plain old dragon of fable and welshman's tea mug.

these arguments do not convince in the way that darwin does.
sorry.
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 03:08 PM   #18
Clytie
thundering is my favorite
 
Clytie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: motivated to be all i can be
Posts: 3,827
yea nothing convinces me like natural selection and mutation... i love the idea of specics jumps. one day my greatgreatgreatgreat grandchild will be a frog. because hey its just a mutation.
__________________
your star shaped heart
has reached out to me
and together our hearts beat as one
bound by the rich red that runs coarsing
united we stand
stronger than before
able to face the dark
with hands entwined
Clytie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 03:10 PM   #19
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clytie
yea nothing convinces me like natural selection and mutation... i love the idea of specics jumps. one day my greatgreatgreatgreat grandchild will be a frog. because hey its just a mutation.
what? you are planning to move to france?
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 03:43 PM   #20
Saxifrage
monkey
 
Saxifrage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Angband
Posts: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig johnston
well, i'm still not convinced.
saxi - your answer is a bit too wack.
these arguments do not convince in the way that darwin does.
sorry.
I am greatly offended that you do not believe an explanation that I thought was bull when I was 10, how dare thee, to the pit with you forthwith!
__________________
The Dude abides.
Saxifrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 07:21 PM   #21
Smartypants
MR. Smartypants to you.
 
Smartypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oh, YOU PEOPLE go ahead and call it "Frisco." See if I care.
Posts: 3,967
What exactly is the point of this thread, really? If it were elsewhere in the board, it might be possible to interpret it as Stan being so excited about Christainanity that he simply wanted to share -- just like threads with titles like, "Ask Me About Financial Services Marketing!!" or "The Joys of Jello Molds. Ask Me Here!!"

But that's not the point now, is it, Stan? You have started this thread in the debate area because you seem to think that people are ignorant of Christian thinking, and if they only knew what you knew, all these arguments about your religion's incursions into the lives of non-Christians would disappear -- that your proselytizing would be accepted, and that it might silence other debates about the idiocies or evils of biblical teachings.

If others want to indulge you, that's their choice. I for one think it is a foolish disguise for a debate topic. And just another example of the lack of understanding devout Christians have of non-Christians whose belief is that they have a right to lives free of Christian influence.
__________________

"I don't think God wants us to believe in him. If he wanted us to believe in him he'd do something about it -- like exist perhaps!" --Linda Smith

Last edited by Smartypants : 02-16-2005 at 07:24 PM.
Smartypants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 09:44 PM   #22
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
i'm a fan of yours sp but i think you're being a bit unfair.
give the guy a chance, i for one am pleased to have the
oportunity to discuss my misgivings in this way.
debate is good surely...
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 11:58 PM   #23
Hyakujo's Fox
left hanging
 
Hyakujo's Fox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: between the click of the light and the start of the dream
Posts: 10,071
I think one thing that everyone can agree on, is that no-one is coming here wanting to be convinced of something else.
Hyakujo's Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 04:57 AM   #24
Gatsby
I used to be a girl
 
Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,152
Answering questions about what you believe is easy.

Answering questions about why you believe is much harder.

To teach is to explain what. The point of debate is to delve into the "why." The "why" is a much more difficult path.

Too many people confuse the two, answering "what," when only a "why" might begin to answer the question.

Last edited by Gatsby : 02-17-2005 at 04:58 AM. Reason: formatting
Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 08:54 AM   #25
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
^^^^
yeah, like the lady said.
but where are our christian brethren? i'm still awaiting a
serious reply to my lizard query, and i've got another one
about chinese people.
i hope smartyp hasn't scared them off.
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 07:44 PM   #26
Smartypants
MR. Smartypants to you.
 
Smartypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oh, YOU PEOPLE go ahead and call it "Frisco." See if I care.
Posts: 3,967
Awww... If ONLY I had the power to scare them off! I'm looking for a new career. (What would that be called? Exorcist?) Unfortunately, I'm afraid such great power has always eluded me.

Keep an eye on this space. They'll be back.
__________________

"I don't think God wants us to believe in him. If he wanted us to believe in him he'd do something about it -- like exist perhaps!" --Linda Smith
Smartypants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 08:26 PM   #27
Coffee
Cheeses Save
 
Coffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Floating
Posts: 9,204
I wanted to thank Tiki for his response to my question. His view that different is not wrong echos my own views.
And I agree with much of what SP says...that this is not really a debate as such. Certainly there is no hope that anyone explaining their layman's views of their faith (a faith that I in general believe is a symptom of the worst that people are capable of) will cause me to "leave with so much more". This is not a debate cuz it is in an "ask me" rather than a "convince me" format.

And my apologies for my snarky questions that Tiki answered without taking offense, or at least not demonstrating offense...kudos.

I'm gonna indulge in a bit of rambling.

Regarding Dinosaurs. I heard that creationists believed there never were dinosaurs...that they were just put there to test the faithful. Certainly Clytie's Leviathan and Behemoth descriptions she found do not sound anything like dinosaurs to me, they sound very "metaphorical" of something, perhaps a concept of evil or strength or adversity. If people did live with dinosaurs 5-6 thousand years ago...well we would have actual dino bones around cuz bones do NOT turn into rocks in a few thousand years, they decompose or they have just started the process of fossilization (and that is easilly testable and verifiable...bury a bone or shell for 60 years and note what percentage of the object has turned to rock...at least 1 % should have turned to rock if the earth is only 6000 yrs old...or does the process speed up in the last 1000 years???..pfft)...And if there had been dinos around at the same time as early humans, esp early humans engaged in writing the old testement...I'd think there would be at least as many references to them as there are to sheep in the bible...like "The Huge ****ing Behemoths ate a bunch of our sheep again last night" or "Moses led his people through the dessert and lost many of their number to Velociraptor attacks". And remember that the Egyptians were very into hunting...do you think we would not see at least one carved inscription showing a Pharoh bringing back a large carnivorous dinosaur to prove his bravery rather than all the piddly little lions and other "large" beasts we see in Egyptian tombs?...pffft..

But faith and believing things that defy our physical experience is a funny gig...I guess looking at a cup of wine and a piece of flat bread, and pretending they turned into actual blood and flesh despite tasting and smelling and looking still like wine and tasteless flat bread say something about the abitity of the faithful to take things on faith...and makes me wonder how humans have lasted so long despite being a relatively new species on this planet.

I always wonder why the many authors of the bible never worried about the fact that there were seashells and fish made of rock found in dessert sediments...did they not look at things like that? Did they have no curiosity beyond their obsession with their theories about the nature of their creator, and just never bothered to observe much of there creator's creation? Or did they notice them and just assume that fish bones and sea shells turned into rock after a couple hundred to a couple thousand years (of course they would attribute the fossil presence as being remants of The Flood). Certainly they were not a scientific people. They were semi nomadic herding people and religious nuts (c'mon, everyone thought the Jewish people were a bit wacked especially in historic times...Egyptians and Romans thought the Jews were freaks, but were happy to easilly conquer the little nutcases and make slaves of them). <<< And that I believe is the main effect of those particular religion/s...making it easy to make mindless slaves of its faithful. Which is why I believe Goverments throughout history have embraced the wacky Christian religion, cuz it makes placid and gulible serfs, peasants, and poor who are programed from birth to believe nonsense, especially if it is told to them by their clerics.
That is why I think such a wierd group of people managed to influence so many generations after them. Intelligent and basically selfish people used the Jewish/Christian faiths to subjugate masses of people and use them as slaves...and they are still doing it.

Now I don't believe all religions are evil, just the ones that have evolved from the Jewish faith. And I certainly don't believe that seeking personal spiritual attainment is wrong.
For instance you just never see Goverments going to war in the name of Buddah. And the Zen Air Force has yet to be formed. Contemplative religions are fine with me...I totaly respect the open minded view of the nature of the divinity that Buddism and other Eastern religions adopt...a "who knows what god looks like" or "it looks like everything" kind of attitude. Christianinty's insistance on believing nutty things despite evidence to the contrary is really a problem for me. And those that insist on taking as fact the pre-scientific word of a book written by a bunch of nuts is a problem for me too, but only when they try to influence public policy based on the nutty precepts found in their nutty book of "facts".

Ok...i'm rambling out of here. Enjoy the religious lessons if they continue.

Peace,
Coffee.
Coffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 09:06 PM   #28
shmitty
monkey
 
shmitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 248
ok question: Correct me if I'm wrong. The bible says we should obey our leaders. If that's the case what happens when our leaders tell us to do something that we feel goes against the teaching of the Bible?
__________________
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -Douglas Adams

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams
shmitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 10:07 PM   #29
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
^^^^^
oh yes, another good question.

and coffee is rapidly becoming a new hero of mine.
excellent stuff.
i'm not so sure, but i believe the sri lankans are buddhists
and have been at civil war for a while against the moslem
tamils. correct me if i'm wrong there.
oh where are those holy ones when you need them?
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 12:05 AM   #30
priceyfatprude
girthy pickles
 
priceyfatprude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: under your desk
Posts: 9,313
**** dinosaurs.

I want to know why it's ok to hate gays.
priceyfatprude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 12:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.