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Old 10-09-2003, 02:19 PM   #1
fodder
 
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suicide

what would you do if a friend of yours was going to kill him/herself?

would you do whatever it took to keep the person alive or is the final choice up to the person? what do you think, etc
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Old 10-09-2003, 02:26 PM   #2
AllegroNg
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Is it because they want attention or because they really want to die?

It is their own choice, and I can't believe I can actually relate! Death means nothing. It means no pain, no anger, no shame..
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Old 10-13-2003, 09:05 PM   #3
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Is it because they want attention or because they really want to die?
That is misleading. Most people who actually commit suicide threaten suicide beforehand, sometimes for years. When it seems like nobody is listening, because it has been said so many times before, then they figure, well hey, if nobody cares anymore, and if I don’t care either, I might as well go ahead with it.

You might want to consider all the times you yourself have thought of suicide. Most of us have at some point or another. As Robert Frost wrote:

…the woods are lovely, dark and deep,
but I have promises to keep,
and miles to go before I sleep,
and miles to go before I sleep.


In middle school, I spent most of the year thinking about suicide. In high school, I began developing plans. Stick some copper wire in the toaster while it’s on? Nah, too messy, too unreliable. Medication? Maybe. Slit wrists in bathtub in hotel? But then I’d traumatise the maid. No good…

See? That’s part of the problem. You’re bound to hurt people by your decision, in ways you didn’t intend.

Another problem? Try this:
You take that skydiving class. Perfect! You can pretend it was a mistake!
The airplane flys high, the cars and streets of your town shrink. Soon the landscape becomes like a crazy patchwork quilt. Your stomach turns as you think about how far you are falling.
And, with the word from your instructor, you…
JUMP!
You feel the rush of air. After the initial shock of fear, you are filled with an intense ecstasy at your continued existance. Wow, you think. This is gonna be easy!
The ground rushes to meet you. Things get too big, too fast. You begin to wonder if you made the right decision. You begin to regret what you are doing. You try pulling the parachute…
too late. You’re dead. You’re erased.

The phone call comes to your mother. She collapses with grief. Then the news hits the paper. Friends you never knew you had show up to your funeral to pay their last respects and contemplate the fundamental inscrutability of people, and of this person they thought they knew so well. But you don’t know about this: you’re dead.

There is no undoing death. Nor is there any way to undo the legacy of ruination and disbelief that inevitably follows suicide.

In some situations suicide is understandable. If the alternative is torture, suicide is a valid option. If you are in incredible pain that will never let up, suicide seems reasonable. But usually, there is another choice, and that is to continue living. I will end with Langston Hughes poem, life is fine:

Quote:
Langston Hughes, Life is Fine


I went down to the river,
I set down on the bank.
I tried to think but couldn't,
So I jumped in and sank.

I came up once and hollered!
I came up twice and cried!
If that water hadn't a-been so cold
I might've sunk and died.

But it was Cold in that water! It was cold!

I took the elevator
Sixteen floors above the ground.
I thought about my baby
And thought I would jump down.

I stood there and I hollered!
I stood there and I cried!
If it hadn't a-been so high
I might've jumped and died.

But it was High up there! It was high!

So since I'm still here livin',
I guess I will live on.
I could've died for love--
But for livin' I was born

Though you may hear me holler,
And you may see me cry--
I'll be dogged, sweet baby,
If you gonna see me die.

Life is fine! Fine as wine! Life is fine!

Last edited by rapscalious rob : 10-14-2003 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 10-13-2003, 11:49 PM   #4
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I have to totally agree. It's not the best idea to assume people threaten suicide to get attention. It's never that simple....it would be nice to think it was but it isn't. People who commit suicide typically threaten or attempt suicide at least once before they actually follow through with it, so every threat should be taken seriously. In terms of helping a friend, I would say yes, help them find a professional that can assist them. A friend can be there to offer emotional support, but that's about it. They can not force someone to not commit suicide.

This topic hits close to home for me. I have experienced first hand the effects of suicide. My brother killed himself when I was sixteen and two years later a good friend of mine also decided to take that route. I am at a point in my life where I am able to realize that both these people were in so much pain that they felt this was the only option. But I will tell you that I will never get over the effect that it had and continues to have on my family. My parent's hearts are as broken as they were the day they found my brother. The devastation will never leave them. They will never be the same people they were prior to my brothers death. Our family will never be the same. I try as much as I possibly can to not think about it, his death that is, but it's always there.

Life can be more then awful at times and I know how difficult it is in the those moments to try and think about others because we become so consumed with our own problems But suicide does not only effect the individual who dies. When you really think about it, it really effects the living. The living are the ones that have to deal with the suicide and they will carry that pain with them through out life. And I can tell you it is a pain I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. So I hope Fodder if your friend is seriously contemplating suicide that you are able to help them get some help.
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Old 10-14-2003, 01:36 AM   #5
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Suicide is selfish. It is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.
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Old 10-14-2003, 09:11 AM   #6
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Yeah Zen, it's true! But then, isn't everything we do out of selfishness? That's a whole new thread

Rmr, I'm truly sorry about your brother and friend, and I hope you don't think I'd ever belittle their situation with my previous comment.

Suicide is a permanent sollution for an ongoing problem (that could very well be solved)
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Old 10-14-2003, 09:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by AllegroNg
Suicide is a permanent sollution for an ongoing problem (that could very well be solved)
.. that's not always the case though. you can't put all people that commit suicide in one box. some people commit suicide out of desperation or loneliness, others because of a mental condition or serious mental illness. the latter cannot always be helped since they tend not to realize that they have a problem and what the problem is. ( therapy is not always the key to everything - it's worth a try and has surely helped many but it's not the answer to all of life's problems )
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Old 10-14-2003, 09:45 AM   #8
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No worries, Allegro, you were just stating your opinion

I would like to throw this out there. How do you know it's only a temporary problem? How do you know this person was able to deal with it or in time would be able to? It's easy to call some one selfish, but how do you know that they were just not able to handle anymore.

Depression is a powerful disease. So is an anxiety disorder or any other mental illness and the fact is with some of these illnesses there is no cure. You can take medication, but that does not mean it will never come back. Further more, think about someone with manic depression, try explaining to them when they are on a high that they need to continue to take meds.

My mom brought up a very interesting point about all of this. It rather surprised me because of the sitatuion we were/are in. She said that she sometimes feels that suicide is a form of "survival of the fittest". That we as humans forget that we are just animals. That suicide could be natures way of dealing with the weak. I'm not saying I agree with that, but it is an interesting thought.
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Old 10-14-2003, 01:33 PM   #9
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i think it's a good idea to suggest options and talk to the person about it, but it's ultimately up to them
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Old 10-14-2003, 05:47 PM   #10
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Gah. It's a tough one... I totally believe in personal choice, but I also believe that if people are mentally ill that the choices they may make may not be "right" because they would not make that choice if they were in a healthy state of mind. If that's the case, I believe that decision making - even though it's over their own body - should be put in the hands of someone who's capable (such a slippery slope, though!). Also, mental illness doesn't have to be "Mrs. X is stone-arse cray-zee" - it can and often is temporary, brought on by stress or whatever.

So - I think it's important to make sure that if a person wants to commit suicide that they are in full command of their faculties and that they are thinking rationally. I'm not able to do that myself, I'm not a psychiatrist... so if this were happening to me, and I had to make a decision in an emergency situation, I would have the person assessed in an emergency ward. Yup, basically call 911 on them - if they wouldn't get assessed voluntarily. I don't know how that works in the US, this is a Canadian bit of advice

Good luck fodder
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Old 10-14-2003, 08:30 PM   #11
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i don't know anyone who is openly contemplating suicide, just curious, but thanks

i still think it is ultimately up to the person, unless the person is absolutely completely out of touch with reality.
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Old 10-14-2003, 09:11 PM   #12
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I watched a man commit suicide one day, it really ruined my day..selfish bastard!
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Old 10-14-2003, 09:12 PM   #13
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what the
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Old 10-14-2003, 09:23 PM   #14
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It ruined a bunch of people's day...
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Old 10-14-2003, 10:49 PM   #15
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Ahhhh OK nevermind fodder

OK so... if we are just discussing the what ifs, would you kill someone else if you knew they would want to die but were unable to communicate that?

Just saw "37.2" (French) aka "Betty Blue" (English) and

****spoilers ahead****

at the end, the protagonist kills his gf because she has gone stone crazy and there is no hopeful prognosis.

When I was a teenager a couple of friends of mine - they were brothers - had a suicide pact, wherein if either of them were in an accident and came out as quadraplegics (sp?) the non-paralyzed one would help the other commit suicide. I find this interesting and kind of scary because at the age of 15, maybe that would have seemed like the end of the world... but what about at the age of 35, both of them have kids and families and full lives, and I doubt that either of them would look at being paralyzed in the same way.
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