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Old 01-28-2005, 01:32 AM   #16
zenbabe
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He wont get the death penalty, there are no grounds for it, he won't even get a murder rap. He will get manslaughter.
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Old 01-28-2005, 04:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by lapietra
I think a better solution would be for him to have to meet all the families and friends of the people whose deaths and injuries he was responsible for, and to get some therapy. Putting someone like him to death isn't what the death penalty is for - it's supposed to be for people who are resolutely non-contrite and non-reformable - people who somehow have become monsters, who will never be able to contribute in a positive way to society. What he did was horrible, unbelievable selfish, infinitely regrettable, but there's a possibility that he could be rehabilitated.
People do really stupid things when their brains are drug-addled... I just heard a story about the guy who kidnapped Frank Sinatra's son. He needed the money; he convinced himself it was okay to do the kidnapping because he planned to invest the money and pay Sinatra back. The guy, who served his time and is now a successful millionaire, acknowledges that his judgement was significantly influenced by the drugs he was doing...
Put the guy in jail - let him clean up - give him something useful to do.
That guy only kidnapped Frank Sinatra's son (haven't heard the story but it sounds like he let the son live). This guy killed 11 people. There is a huge difference in these comparisons. He intentionaly left his car on the train tracks. He could have moved it but nope. This guy deserves death.
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Old 01-28-2005, 05:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapietra
I think a better solution would be for him to have to meet all the families and friends of the people whose deaths and injuries he was responsible for, and to get some therapy. Putting someone like him to death isn't what the death penalty is for - it's supposed to be for people who are resolutely non-contrite and non-reformable - people who somehow have become monsters, who will never be able to contribute in a positive way to society. What he did was horrible, unbelievable selfish, infinitely regrettable, but there's a possibility that he could be rehabilitated.
People do really stupid things when their brains are drug-addled... I just heard a story about the guy who kidnapped Frank Sinatra's son. He needed the money; he convinced himself it was okay to do the kidnapping because he planned to invest the money and pay Sinatra back. The guy, who served his time and is now a successful millionaire, acknowledges that his judgement was significantly influenced by the drugs he was doing...
Put the guy in jail - let him clean up - give him something useful to do.
He is an adult and knows right from wrong. He made a choice. Kill him.
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Old 01-28-2005, 05:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Spicy Jack
He is an adult and knows right from wrong.
This is true. I think he will sit on death row for a long time though.

Although 10 counts of manslaughter @ 80 years a pop = 800 years in jail? How would they figure that out?

I mean, *****ing out is *****ing out any way you slice it. But not moving the car is just plain selfish, immature & incredibly stupid as well as irresponsible.

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Old 01-28-2005, 06:01 PM   #20
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Well, it ain't manslaughter... he's been charged with murder:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGGNB221B1.DTL

An interesting article about the different legal issues in the case. Apparently under a 1905 law it's a capital crime specifically to derail a train in CA. Probably was a sop to the railroads back when.
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Old 01-28-2005, 07:36 PM   #21
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I wasn't comparing what this guy did to what the guy who kidnapped Sinatra's son did... I was just using it as an example of what sort of misjudgement can occur when one is doing drugs regularly.

I wouldn't be too quick to judge this guy. It sounds like he *tried* to move the car, but was unsuccessful. The fact that he was going to commit suicide in this way would have resulted in people's deaths as well as his own... so either way he's at fault and deserves to be punished in some way. But I still think the death penalty should be reserved for people who go about planning other's deaths in a conscious way, especially with intent to benefit by it in some way. This guy sounds like his judgement is really ****ed up; that it probably didn't occur to him that he was going to be endangering others. He possibly thought the train was strong enough to just hit him and keep going without derailing. It doesn't sound like he planned anything. It'll probably come out in a trial.
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Old 01-28-2005, 07:52 PM   #22
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You'll all be shocked to learn I don't favour the death penalty, period.
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Old 01-28-2005, 08:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapietra
What he did was horrible, unbelievable selfish, infinitely regrettable, but there's a possibility that he could be rehabilitated.
After reading that he is a drug addict and threatened to sell his car to buy a gun to shoot his child, with those facts alone, you think he A) could be rehabed and B) even deserves a chance?

Forget death, what about life in prision?
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Old 01-28-2005, 08:47 PM   #24
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I looked it up in ma penal code book for Cali

section 219 Wrecking Train or Firing Bridge: Penalty

Every person who unlawfully throws out a switch, removes a rail, or places any obstruction on any rail-road with the intention of derailing any passenger, freight or other train, car or engine and thus derails the same, or who unlawfully places any dynamite or other explosive material or any other obstruction upon or near the track of any railroad with the intention of blowing up or derailing any such train, car or engine and thus blows up or derails the same, or who unlawfully sets fire to any railroad bridge or trestle over which any such train, car or engine must pass with the intention of wrecking such train, car or engine, and thus wrecks the sme, is guilty of a felony and punishable with death or imprisonment in the state prison for life without possibility of parole in cases where any person suffers death as proximate result thereof, or imprisonment in the stat4e prison for life with the possibilityo of parole, in cases where no person suffers death as a proximate result thereof. The penalty shall be determine pursuant to Sections 190.3 and 190.4 (AD '73; AM'76, '77)
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Old 01-28-2005, 10:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicy Jack
After reading that he is a drug addict and threatened to sell his car to buy a gun to shoot his child, with those facts alone, you think he A) could be rehabed and B) even deserves a chance?

Forget death, what about life in prision?
I do. I think that drugs can make people think and say and do some pretty crazy, awful things. He probably does deserve life in prison, which would give him a chance to clean up and possibly contribute something to humanity.

I am also against the death penalty. I don't believe we have the right to decide whether another human gets to live or die. I don't think it solves anything, that there are much more useful things we could be doing. Having said that, if we have to have it, reserve it for the individuals for whom there is no other alternative.
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Old 01-28-2005, 11:51 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by trisherina
You'll all be shocked to learn I don't favour the death penalty, period.
Oh yeah. The great upholder of human rights does though.

Can you spell hypocrite?

BTW I'm against the death penalty except in the majority of cases.
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Old 01-29-2005, 12:31 AM   #27
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Some of my reasons for not favouring it have a utilitarian basis i.e. as a deterrent, it blows dead goats. Why politicians continue to get away with ignoring this amazes me.
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Old 01-29-2005, 01:37 AM   #28
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It blows me away that our prez is anti-abortion but pro death penalty.....go figure......
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