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Old 08-25-2005, 07:21 PM   #166
Saxifrage
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Quote:
But seriously, how does one make dirt anyway?
From scratch, I mean.
I use an energy to matter converter, currently it requires far too much energy to be efficient but we'll have the kinks worked out before you can say Ahura Mazdah.
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Old 08-25-2005, 07:26 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brynn
But seriously, how does one make dirt anyway?
From scratch, I mean.
I can explain it if you really want me too. Or was this just rhetorical?
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:09 AM   #168
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Well, it started out rhetorical, and I adore Saxi's and Con Ate Dog's answers, but sure, I'd love to hear how it's actually done (wait - wait - first you get a really big mountain and a bag of compost....).

See, I've always thought you had to start with something on earth to end up with dirt, but hey, I'm no scientist. Let's make it bigger and say that you have to start with something in the universe, which is to say that it's a similar problem on Mars when it comes to Mars dirt, or making the ice in Saturn's rings, the swirling gases in Jupiter's eye, or the stars that make up a distant nebula.

If, approaching this scientifically, it all boils down to one quark brushing up against another quark in order to build a hadron, then I'd still want to know where you get the stuff to make one of those - (wait - first you get out your quantum physics notes to create the conditions for one quark to appear to be in two places at once, and then....).

Does this fractal equation never end? Probably not. Science can only follow the infinite fractal as far as science/mankind itself can go, which is pretty dang far, granted. But there's a reason why at a certain point philosophers have to bring out the big guns for the big questions. Science dutifully fills in the holes that Poetry and Mystery keep digging.

The idea that things have always just been and always will be starts to sound a lot like God's "I am that I am" . What if it all comes down to semantics?
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Old 08-26-2005, 03:39 AM   #169
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Old 08-26-2005, 07:10 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxifrage
Thank you for that reply FTM, I can appreciate that. I believe in personal Karma. When I have went against my personal code of ethics I have always suffered for it, when I have done good to others I have always recieved good back. I don't know if it works for everyone but it has always balanced that way for me.

Come on people, it doesn't have to be a theological belief, what is your personal code of ethics? We all have one whether we know it or not. What about life philosophies? Everyone believes in something no matter how insignificant.
I believe in karma also. Whenever I do something bad something always bites me in the butt later. Whenever I am thinking of doing something and I have this nagging feeling that it is bad and I do it anyways I will always get my just desserts.

Once I was thinking about going to 7-11 and buying a Big Gulp when I knew that I should go to the small supermarket near my house and buy an apple instead. I decided to go for the Big Gulp and on my way there I almost get hit by a car. I pushed off on the side of the car, in the instinct to avoid it, fell backwards. I received bruises in my elbow. Nothing major. I guess the minor punishment is proportional to the minor violation of the "what I SHOULD do."
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Old 09-03-2005, 06:19 PM   #171
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Well, someone's gotta ask it, and I guess I'm the logical choice to do so here:

In the wake of Hurricane Katrina's destruction, and the suffering of Gulf Coast residents, where is all the talk about everyone's "benevolent God?"

Edited to add: And how, based on news events of the last week, can anyone even doubt George Bush's descendence from apes?
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Old 09-03-2005, 08:22 PM   #172
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you only live once.
you could die today. you could die tomorrow.

don't fear it, live it.
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Old 09-06-2005, 06:06 PM   #173
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^ what she said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartypants
Well, someone's gotta ask it, and I guess I'm the logical choice to do so here:

In the wake of Hurricane Katrina's destruction, and the suffering of Gulf Coast residents, where is all the talk about everyone's "benevolent God?"

Edited to add: And how, based on news events of the last week, can anyone even doubt George Bush's descendence from apes?
Ha ha He quite possibly did.
Oh, and here's another burning question in case you wanted to tie Bush's abysmal performance in a crisis to Christianity as a whole: Is Bush the Antichrist?

The same question about God's benevolence was asked about the Holocaust, and could easily apply to Hurrican Katrina:
Q:Where was God?
A:Where was Man?

God never promised that mankind would be free from tragedy. God does promise that if we'd only turn to him, he will be our strength to deal with tragedy. Life on earth is what it is. It's beyond difficult, and we're simply not wired to have to handle these things well without him. These days, I'm holding on to this promise:
"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purposes." Romans 8:28

In the face of being stripped of absolutely everything, I fail to see how clinging to God could possibly be harmful for evacuees right now. Especially since you say He's just a fairy tale figure - what could you possibly object to, then? Would you actually discourage them from embracing what is quite possibly their only hope right now as they wait for aid? Faith is a sustaining force, and survivors often point to it as being the only thing that got them through impossible circumstances.

Many of the faithful have been struck by this tragedy right alongside those who have turned away from God. They do not question God's benevolence. It is his benevolence that will get them through. It's more a question of his sovereignty than of his benevolence.

A hurricane, however, is most definitely an "act of God," which, if I'm not mistaken, is your implication. Okay. Look. You can't have it both ways in your arguments, Smarty. He's either a fairy tale figure like you say, or he's all-powerful enough to maliciously conjur up a hurricane against humanity, in clear defiance of his faithful's claims of his beneficence.

Which is it for your argument's purposes this time? I need to know before I begin to discuss it. Otherwise I'll just be carpet-bombed with jokes about Easter bunnies and the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the middle of it

Please note: I'm really trying to keep my comments limited to God as a general concept so as not to shut out those of other belief systems. I'd rather discuss Christianity over in the Christianity thread, and unfortunately, any discussion of Bush necessitates a discussion of Christianity and how he and other right-wingers have co-opted it. My apologies.
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Old 09-06-2005, 06:44 PM   #174
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Brynn,

I'm still sticking with my Fairy Tale explanation. I just find it interesting that believers look to a god for comfort after tragedy, but don't wonder why this source of comfort caused the tragedy in the first place. (As you yourself said, this kind of thing IS referred to as an "Act of God.") The lack of logic in these cases never fails to astound me. If anyone wants it both ways, it's those who see god as a source of comfort after tragedy strikes, while not holding him accountable for the initial cause of their suffering. I see no evidence of his existence in either instance. But if I did believe, I don't think I would be so ready to credit him with only the good stuff.

It certainly doesn't surprise me that so many abandoned their faith after the Holocaust. It would interesting to see "loss of faith" included among all the post-Katrina statistics that detail the loss of life and property.
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Old 09-06-2005, 08:48 PM   #175
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People find God in those circumstances too. It is interesting. It is astounding. You should investigate.

Because there is a great deal of difference between Judaism and Christianity, historically and in practice, I of course cannot speak for Holocaust victims - and neither can you, for that matter
But most Christians I know have told me that they only came to God after all other things were stripped from them, either literally or emotionally. There are few Christians who are not fairly lukewarm to begin with who reject Jesus after their faith is tested. And some, like me, come back to it after thoroughly rejecting it.
It's not like there's a hidden agenda. We are told up front that to be followers of Christ, we must share in his sufferings.

When it comes to hurricanes, all I can do is point to the Bible that says "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." God is goodness itself. But God is also an unfathomable mystery, with ways higher than ours that we couldn't possibly begin to comprehend. If he were anything less, he wouldn't be God. And until I've got the big picture too, I'm sticking with that.

There's a tiny village in Mexico called La Purisma. People from my church went down there this spring to help build them some buildings. They reported that these people had nothing - I mean, nothing. They had dirt, some food, some very slight shelter, and each other. But they shared everything they had, with incredible amounts of joy and gratitude and selflessness and a kind of all-inclusive hospitality that these particular Americans had never seen.

They came back with stories of incredible generosity and how completely close to God these people seemed - the villagers looked at their poverty as a blessing in that there were no material concerns to get between them and God.
This is the sort of thing aesthetes, monks and saints talk about. They took away from that village far more spiritually than what they brought materially.
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Old 09-09-2005, 05:57 AM   #176
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This just in! Beginning Monday, The Daily Show With Jon Stewart is doing a segment all week on the evolution/creation/ID debate, called "Evolution-Schmevolution."

I cannot think of a better venue than Comedy Central or a more intelligent group of journalists than The Daily Show's to cover the topic!
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:02 PM   #177
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Oooh thanks for the tip, I'll set the PVR for that one.
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Old 09-12-2005, 12:22 AM   #178
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The Dalai Lama is on Larry King Live and the whole thing is just too funny!! LOL!!

Larry King asks what the Buddhist religion has to say about a catastrophe like Hurricane Katrina, and the Dalai Lama says (and I paraphrase here -- I can't remember the exact words, but they were a whole lot funnier than this), "Well, in Buddhism we believe in Karma, and this kind of suffering can well be attributed to our bad behavior in a previous lifetime, or, it could have something to do with global warming."

ROFLMAO!!!

(never let it be said that I think Christianity holds a monopoly on idiocy! )
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:16 PM   #179
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:45 PM   #180
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I have been recording this and watching it a day behind all week. So much good material, it's hard to say what made me laugh the hardest!
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