ZEFRANK.COM - message board  

Go Back   ZEFRANK.COM - message board > DEBATE HALL
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 80 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 09-14-2005, 06:18 PM   #181
Smartypants
MR. Smartypants to you.
 
Smartypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oh, YOU PEOPLE go ahead and call it "Frisco." See if I care.
Posts: 3,967
^^^ Agreed!
__________________

"I don't think God wants us to believe in him. If he wanted us to believe in him he'd do something about it -- like exist perhaps!" --Linda Smith
Smartypants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2005, 10:23 AM   #182
Sapphire
Hippy Chick
 
Sapphire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southeast crease of the mitten
Posts: 92
I hope it's ok to still answer the original question - I'm not really sure of the "forum ettiquette" around here, so please let me know if I've erred.

I believe in a "Divine Being." Call Him/Her/It God, Universe, Life, Energy Bob or whatever - I don't think the name matters.

I believe we are all One - with each other and with God. I don't believe God is any different than any of us, save the fact that God knows (remembers) Who and What S/He/It really is and what S/He/It is truly capable of - I think that when we enter into this "game of life," part of the game is an agreement to forget Who and What we truly are.

I believe that when we end the game, we return to a state of Oneness so as to share our experiences - a watered-down example of this:
You have a blank hard drive. You take it to a friend's house and plug it into their computer (Life), and download all the files onto it. (Experience) You then go back to your own mainframe computer (Oneness) plug the drive in, and copy the files over - your mainframe computer (Oneness) now knows everything the other computer knows.

I believe that there is not a person alive who fully remembers Who they really are, and as a result, I believe none of us truly knows exactly Who and What God really is.

I believe that our beliefs about God (and thus, our beliefs about ourselves and each other) are killing us. Our certainty that we know exactly what God wants/expects/demands of us influence every aspect of our existence here on earth - and cause us to commit some pretty heinous acts in the name of OUR understanding of what God expects.

I believe that every choice, every feeling, every action we take is rooted in either Fear or Love. Choices, feelings and actions rooted in fear are destructive. Choices, feelings and actions rooted in Love are not.

I believe God Loves us unconditionally - I believe God Loves us literally no matter what. I don't believe God stops Loving us because we commit murder, because we steal, or lie or anything else - I believe that in our human guise we are incapable of truly understanding just what unconditional Love feels like. "Love the sinner hate the sin" is not unconditional Love - it's a cop out. It's a statement that says "I Love everything about you - except the choices you make." Sorry, that's not unconditional Love - because our choices are part of who we are.

I believe that when we "die," we are ALL returned to the Oneness - that includes Hitler, Stalin, child-molesting priests and the homeless guy on the street corner. You, me, him, her, them - everyone. I do not believe in hell in any form, save the hell we create for ourselves here on earth. I do believe that when we die it is possible that we do not immediately REMEMBER Who and What we really are - and that it is possible for us to "create" a hell of our own making - but I also believe that "hell" lasts only as long as it takes us to REMEMBER the Truth.

I believe that our thoughts and our beliefs shape our reality and our experience. I believe we can manifest anything - if we truly believe we can do it. While I have a hard time truly believing I can win the lotto, for example, I can do it with small things - I can go to the store and buy an instant ticket and KNOW it will be a $10.00 winner, and have it be exactly that. I've done that a number of times when I had nothing but a dollar left in my wallet and needed a gallon of milk and a few gallons of gas to get through a few days. I even manifested a new house and the perfect "rent to own" situation, but that's another story. LOL

I believe that quantum physics are going to be the key that unlocks many of the mysteries about God and about Life. I believe that the underlying message in the movie "What the bleep do we know" is spot on.
www.whatthebleep.com

I also believe that I could be completely wrong about all of this - and so I am prepared to change my beliefs upon receipt of new information. However, having explored just about every mainstream religion on this planet, I know that my truth does not lie in any of them. I can give you a list of several thousand reasons why I do not believe in the Bible, the Qur'an, the Torah, etc. but that's not going to help you understand what I do believe, only what I don't - ergo, it's not really relevent.

In essence, what I believe can be summed up by the following:
I believe that there are things we do not yet know/understand about God and about Life the knowing/understanding of which would change EVERYTHING.
__________________
Thou art God. Do you grok?
Sapphire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2005, 06:39 PM   #183
Smartypants
MR. Smartypants to you.
 
Smartypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oh, YOU PEOPLE go ahead and call it "Frisco." See if I care.
Posts: 3,967
More from The Daily Show.
__________________

"I don't think God wants us to believe in him. If he wanted us to believe in him he'd do something about it -- like exist perhaps!" --Linda Smith
Smartypants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2005, 07:12 PM   #184
Saxifrage
monkey
 
Saxifrage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Angband
Posts: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphire
I hope it's ok to still answer the original question - I'm not really sure of the "forum ettiquette" around here, so please let me know if I've erred.
Sure it's okay, I started this thread and even though I almost never post here anymore I still like come around and see how it is progressing. This is one of the most successful threads I have ever started on a message board. It's probably lasted so long because I don't post in it

I find your spiritual view to be palatable and not far off how I see things. I don't believe in an omnipotent god, I believe that humanity and all other life on this planet are the living extensions of a sort of Gaia. That humanity is an establishment of the planets/gods sentience. Well, at least that is what I believe at the moment. My philosophy changes from time to time.
__________________
The Dude abides.
Saxifrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2005, 02:26 PM   #185
Aphrodite
Myth Demeanour
 
Aphrodite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: My tent
Posts: 3,041
Beautifully put and it sounds very close to my own perception.
__________________
Monkey on the Halfshell
Aphrodite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2005, 08:26 PM   #186
Smartypants
MR. Smartypants to you.
 
Smartypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oh, YOU PEOPLE go ahead and call it "Frisco." See if I care.
Posts: 3,967
Southward Christian Soldiers!
__________________

"I don't think God wants us to believe in him. If he wanted us to believe in him he'd do something about it -- like exist perhaps!" --Linda Smith
Smartypants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2005, 11:27 PM   #187
Brynn
constantly amazed
 
Brynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: in the labyrinth of shared happiness
Posts: 6,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphire

I believe that our beliefs about God (and thus, our beliefs about ourselves and each other) are killing us. Our certainty that we know exactly what God wants/expects/demands of us influence every aspect of our existence here on earth - and cause us to commit some pretty heinous acts in the name of OUR understanding of what God expects.

I believe that every choice, every feeling, every action we take is rooted in either Fear or Love. Choices, feelings and actions rooted in fear are destructive. Choices, feelings and actions rooted in Love are not.

I believe God Loves us unconditionally - I believe God Loves us literally no matter what. I don't believe God stops Loving us because we commit murder, because we steal, or lie or anything else - I believe that in our human guise we are incapable of truly understanding just what unconditional Love feels like. "Love the sinner hate the sin" is not unconditional Love - it's a cop out. It's a statement that says "I Love everything about you - except the choices you make." Sorry, that's not unconditional Love - because our choices are part of who we are.

I believe that when we "die," we are ALL returned to the Oneness - that includes Hitler, Stalin, child-molesting priests and the homeless guy on the street corner. You, me, him, her, them - everyone.
<snip>
I believe that our thoughts and our beliefs shape our reality and our experience. I believe we can manifest anything - if we truly believe we can do it. While I have a hard time truly believing I can win the lotto, for example, I can do it with small things - I can go to the store and buy an instant ticket and KNOW it will be a $10.00 winner, and have it be exactly that. I've done that a number of times when I had nothing but a dollar left in my wallet and needed a gallon of milk and a few gallons of gas to get through a few days. I even manifested a new house and the perfect "rent to own" situation, but that's another story. LOL

I believe that quantum physics are going to be the key that unlocks many of the mysteries about God and about Life. I believe that the underlying message in the movie "What the bleep do we know" is spot on.
www.whatthebleep.com

<snip>

In essence, what I believe can be summed up by the following:
I believe that there are things we do not yet know/understand about God and about Life the knowing/understanding of which would change EVERYTHING.
Sapphire, I totally agree with these things in particular. So well-put. Thanks for a great post!
Brynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2005, 01:24 AM   #188
Smartypants
MR. Smartypants to you.
 
Smartypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oh, YOU PEOPLE go ahead and call it "Frisco." See if I care.
Posts: 3,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphire
I believe that our beliefs about God (and thus, our beliefs about ourselves and each other) are killing us. Our certainty that we know exactly what God wants/expects/demands of us influence every aspect of our existence here on earth - and cause us to commit some pretty heinous acts in the name of OUR understanding of what God expects.
Can't argue with that!

Quote:
I believe that there are things we do not yet know/understand about God and about Life the knowing/understanding of which would change EVERYTHING.
This is pretty hard to argue as well, except I am not sure why you need the added "...about God and...". There is nothing in what you say about your beliefs that would give you any reason to believe in God. Life's pretty easy to believe in, as you experience it every day. Where did you get this idea that there's a God, who expects something or not?
__________________

"I don't think God wants us to believe in him. If he wanted us to believe in him he'd do something about it -- like exist perhaps!" --Linda Smith
Smartypants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2005, 05:42 AM   #189
Sapphire
Hippy Chick
 
Sapphire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southeast crease of the mitten
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartypants
Can't argue with that!



This is pretty hard to argue as well, except I am not sure why you need the added "...about God and...". There is nothing in what you say about your beliefs that would give you any reason to believe in God. Life's pretty easy to believe in, as you experience it every day. Where did you get this idea that there's a God, who expects something or not?
A very fair question, SP. I actually believe that the words "God" and "Life" are interchangeable. Added note: Please bear with me - this post has gotten much longer than I planned.

In these types of discussions, I typically use either "God" or "Life" depending on who I am speaking with. Since I don't really "know" you all yet, I thought it best to use both words - which mean the same thing to me.

Where did I get this idea that there is a God who expects something or not?

Well, just to be clear, I don't believe God has any expectations of us - save the expectations we have of ourselves. Because I do not see a real difference between "Me" and "God," I don't believe it is possible for "God" to have expectations of "Me" that I do not have of "Myself." I view "God" (or "Life," if you will) as the part of each of us that REMEMBERS who and what we really are.

As I said, I belive "God" and "Life" are interchangeable. I also believe "Energy" is just as good a word. The atoms that make up "Me" are no different from the atoms that make up "You" except in the way they've come together, the speed at which they vibrate, etc. For that matter, I am made up of the same "stuff" as my keyboard I am typing on. In theory, IF I could actually learn to control the vibration of my atoms, it would be possible for me to "meld" with my keyboard - in theory, it's possible - it's all just atoms afterall. I think "God" is actually a state of beingness, rather than some entity that is separate from us.

I also believe that there is a "life force" that animates our bodies - it too, is energy. When the body is no longer needed, that energy has to go somewhere. It does not cease to exist - it simply changes form. It is that change in form that I believe is "God" or the "God-state," it is still "Life," or "Energy," but in a different form.

I also believe that some of the knowledge we have in that state carries over when we move into and create/inhabit/animate a body - and it is that knowledge we carry over, in bits and pieces, that ends up coming together to create our religions, (As you read on, please keep the biblical passage about "I knew you in the womb" in mind) our morals, our understandings about Life. Yet the knowledge is incomplete - our "memory" is faulty - and so we end up with a whole lot of contradictory messages.

What leads me to believe all of this?

Dragons, demons and other "fairy tales." Now, get your laughing fit over with so I can continue.

We have physical evidence of dinosaurs - bones, fossil records, etc. I think I read that we have even managed to secure dinosaur DNA recently, some preserved cartilege as I recall. We know dinosaurs once walked the earth. We find records of them all over the place.

We have no such evidence of dragons, demons, fairies, unicorns, etc. We only have stories about them - stories, drawings, folk lore. And yet, those stories, drawings and folk lore can be found the world over - predating man's ability to communicate across great bodies of water. The traditional demonic image - horned, cloven hoofed, etc. is found the world over in very ancient text. Yet somehow, no physical record of them - fossils, bones, etc. - has been found. How is it possible that human beings separated by thousands of miles of water with absolutely NO possibility of having communicated with each other can share this knowledge or "memory"? I believe it is an example of the residual knowledge in the atoms/energy that we are made of.

I think it is this residual knowledge that gives us our instincts and our autonomic responses. We don't teach a baby to yawn or suckle on a nipple - they just do, because the body tells them to. Yet how does the body know to do this thing? We simple define this as an autonomic response and leave it at that - but how does the body KNOW? How does the body KNOW to close the eyes when we sneeze? Even from birth? How does the body know when it is time to give birth to a baby? How does the baby's body know to not develop the skull into a solid form so it can fit through the vagina? How does it know to leave the fontanel? "Something" is programming the body - I believe that "Something" is the residual memory in the energy we are all made of.

I believe that our residual knowledge of that "Something" is how we come up with biblical passages like, "I knew you in the womb." "I" being the energy as a Whole, the energy when it is in it's pure state, Oneness with all the other energy that makes up all of the physical plane. Everything that is out there, unformed to our eye. I believe that in this human form, we have a residual memory of that Whole or Oneness - but we are limited in this form. We can't comprehend something on that scale - so we create a deity, an entity, in what we believe to be our own image. That becomes the "I" that knew "us" in the womb.

Consider - in nearly every major religion - the "God" tends towards some pretty petty, vindictive and jealous behaviors. Yet we claim these "Gods" to be unconditionally Loving. Who else can you think of that is petty, vindictive and jealous? Does it stand to reason that "God" would create us in "His" own image - and then punish us for eternity for exhibiting the very behaviors "He Himself" is guilty of? That does not stand up to any test of reason or logic I've encountered.

It is much more reasonable or logical that WE have created a "God" in OUR image - petty, vindictive and jealous. We don't much like those parts of ourselves - they cause us pain. So what do we do? We add in punishments for those behaviors, and call them "Sins." We convince ourselves that it's ok for "God" to exhibit those behaviors, but if we do - because they are so painful in this existence- well, we will be punished for behaving exactly the same way we think "God" behaves.

Boy are we masochistic or what?

I don't know the members of this forum very well. I do know that there are millions of people in this world who would read this post in horror. It completely contradicts everything they have been taught to believe about "God" or "Life" or whatever word you want to use. Millions who would react with great defensiveness. I have learned that when someone becomes defensive, reasonable debate becomes impossible. This is why I typically try to choose my words carefully - using phrases like "about God or about Life." To me, they are One and the Same.

I apologize for the length of this. I hope I have been able to explain myself more clearly.
__________________
Thou art God. Do you grok?
Sapphire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 04:25 AM   #190
Smartypants
MR. Smartypants to you.
 
Smartypants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oh, YOU PEOPLE go ahead and call it "Frisco." See if I care.
Posts: 3,967
ROBERTSON BLAMES HURRICANE ON CHOICE OF ELLEN DEGENERES TO HOST EMMYS
Lesbian is New Orleans native

Hollywood – Pat Robertson on Sunday said that Hurricane Katrina was God’s way of expressing its anger at the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences for its selection of Ellen Degeneres to host this year’s Emmy Awards. “By choosing an avowed lesbian for this national event, these Hollywood elites have clearly invited God’s wrath,” Robertson said on “The 700 Club” on Sunday. “Is it any surprise that the Almighty chose to strike at Miss Degeneres’ hometown?”

Robertson also noted that the last time Degeneres hosted the Emmys, in 2001, the September 11 terrorism attacks took place shortly before the ceremony.

“This is the second time in a row that God has invoked a disaster shortly before lesbian Ellen Degeneres hosted the Emmy Awards,” Robertson explained to his approximately one million viewers. “America is waiting for her to apologize for the death and destruction that her sexual deviance has brought onto this great nation.”

Robertson added that other tragedies of the past several years can be linked to Degeneres’ growing national prominence. September, 2003, for example, is both the month that her talk show debuted and when insurgents first gained a foothold in Iraq following the successful March invasion. “Now we know why things took a turn for the worse,” he explained.

In order to avoid further tragedy, Robertson called not only for the Television Academy to find a new heterosexual host, but to bar all homosexuals and bisexuals from taking part in the ceremony.

He said employees at the Christian Broadcasting Network had put together a list of 283 nominees, presenters, and invited guests at the Emmys known to be of sexually deviant persuasions.

“God already allows one awards show to promote the homosexual agenda,” Robertson declared. “But clearly He will not tolerate such sinful behavior to spread beyond the Tonys.”

http://datelinehollywood.com/archive...to-host-emmys/
__________________

"I don't think God wants us to believe in him. If he wanted us to believe in him he'd do something about it -- like exist perhaps!" --Linda Smith
Smartypants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 05:02 AM   #191
topcat
monkey
 
topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: across the st. from the telephone pole
Posts: 1,970
now god is pissed at bush just for being bush, and is going after crawford, texas.
__________________
the most tip top topcat

This is an internet bulletin board.

Nothing more. Nothing less
topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 08:33 AM   #192
Sapphire
Hippy Chick
 
Sapphire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southeast crease of the mitten
Posts: 92
I'm glad SP and Topcat posted. I was starting to think I had scared everyone off.
__________________
Thou art God. Do you grok?
Sapphire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 01:36 PM   #193
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
I'd comment, but I'm late for my blood sacrifice to Neptune. I mean, someone has to do something about all this!
__________________
Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard
trisherina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 07:12 PM   #194
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
placebo - if you believe it helps, it does.

near death experiences - 'don't go into the light' etc. this is true.
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2005, 07:16 PM   #195
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
bad news for God
__________________
Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard
trisherina is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 09:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.