Atheists - ZEFRANK.COM

Hermione · 09-13-2003, 02:23 AM

Okay.. I don't know if this belongs here or not, but I figured it would arouse some opinions..

okay.. so why does one become an atheist? Is there a specific incident that makes a person deny the existence in god? I've been wondering about this for awhile.

*I'm not trying to be mean.. I am just curious*

malina · 09-13-2003, 02:35 AM

you don't "become" an atheist... you just are

i have no reason to believe in a "god" so i don't

09-13-2003, 12:46 PM

i think this should be switched around
you should be telling us why you believe in a god
it's the believers responsibility to convince us, not everyone elses to convince you otherwise

zenbabe · 09-13-2003, 01:13 PM

I was always under the impression that scientists were all athiests, simply because they believe in fact and not on the unknown. I read an article the other day stating that there were more religious scientists than athiests...that tripped me out!

I think athiests come from the POV that there is no proof, never has been and never will be. I think some people need some kind of proof to believe in something. The whole big bang theroy vs. evolution thing/adam and eve thing...

moel · 09-13-2003, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fodder
i think this should be switched around
you should be telling us why you believe in a god
it's the believers responsibility to convince us, not everyone elses to convince you otherwise

i don't know if i'd call it a responsibility. Maybe a responsiblity to accept your own beliefs.. and that others will have their own aswell. I don't think it's any ones responsibility to "enlighten" anyone.

I'm not so much interested in what people believe, or why they believe what they believe. What i'm interested in is why we feel we need to believe anything.. it seems almost as inert as eating and breathing to search for these answers.

malina · 09-13-2003, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moel
i don't know if i'd call it a responsibility. Maybe a responsiblity to accept your own beliefs.. and that others will have their own aswell. I don't think it's any ones responsibility to "enlighten" anyone.

exactly moel!

AllegroNg · 09-13-2003, 01:56 PM

It's like the whole Santa Clause thing. It's rather heart breaking to learn that there is no Santa, and that I was lied to for all those years. How is that not the same as a god? If no one had tried ot tell me there was one, I would never have guessed.

09-13-2003, 02:22 PM

i just assumed it would turn into a debate because it's in the debate thread. it's no one's responsibility to convince anyone else of anything. but, if you want to debate over the existence of god, etc, the believers should be the ones proving it to the scientists. after all, they are the ones making the argument.

like in astrology: it's not the astronomer's role to explain why it doesn't exist, it's the astrologer's to explain why he/she thinks it does.

imo, i don't see how anyone can argue for religion since they don't know. i also don't think faith is a reason as beliefs =/ knowledge.

but me, i just think when i die i'm dead and i don't know what else happens after that but hopefully i will turn into energy

moel · 09-13-2003, 02:25 PM

yeah, i'm agnostic, not necessarily atheist

09-13-2003, 02:26 PM

high five bffae

zenbabe · 09-13-2003, 02:38 PM

I'm frisbitarian, I believe when I die, my soul will land on the roof and never come down...

azur · 09-13-2003, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surbhi
so why does one become an atheist? Is there a specific incident that makes a person deny the existence in god? I've been wondering about this for awhile.

I can tell you how it happened to me apart to all philosophic debates (that I certainly made in my head for many years).
I was always very dubtful, tried to understand the Bible, that we were studing during sunday lessons and so I started to ask myself many questions and I understood there are no answers. I've noticed how many simply stupid things are telling different "religious leaders", how greedy for money and power they are.
In effect I stopped to go to church, than to pray, then to ask myself questions about bible etc. After some time I realized I'm not praying or thinking of God and in the same time my life become easier, even if in I was even more "moral" and had more conservative conviction about how I should live, than before. I think that the atheism in my life was like religiousness in other's people life.
I don't say there is no god (how can I be sure?), I just don't care if it exist or not.

Hermione · 09-13-2003, 03:12 PM

That's really interesting.

Fodder-- what do you mean you hope you turn into energy? (sorry if this is a stupid question)

moel · 09-13-2003, 03:26 PM

i think the same... it goes along the lines of the laws of thermodynamics... energy cannot be created or distroyed. We die and the energy leaves our body and that is all that is left to us. Pure energy. no heaven of any kind; no hell of any kind. Which begs the question... what is the soul?
And it's not James Brown.

Of course i am oversimplifying this.

09-13-2003, 04:14 PM

Just throwing some ideas out…

There was (is) a professor from Texas who wrote a contraversial book called Omega Theory. In it, he expounds the idea, which he calls Omega Theory, through complicated and, for me, indecipherably complex mathematics, that we will (probably) have eternal life through some kind of looping mechanism. I didn’t understand that much of it, because the math was way over my head.

If you look at the many-histories interpretation of quantum mechanics, perhaps in this universe/timeline you die but in an alternate one you continue living.

Regarding atheism, there are a variety of reasons a person might choose not to believe in god. Perhaps a person’s god let him or her down in a very important way -- such as a loved one dying in an accident. Perhaps the person grew up in a religious environment in which they were hurt by misguided practitioners of that religion -- as in my maternal grandmother’s case, who became an atheist after a bad experience with abusive nuns. Perhaps the person grew up among atheists (like me). Perhaps the person is rebelling against an oppressive religious upbringing. Who knows?

Personally, I think maybe there’s a god -- but if so, it doesn’t have a sex and I cannot personally appeal to it. My idea is more of a pantheism-- the miracle of the emergence of life in the universe, and the miracle of the universe itself. Not intelligent design, necessarily. Just an appreciation of the permutations of events that led to us being here-- the improbability of it and the hugeness of it. The fact that we come from stars is pretty amazing. Could that be called god? maybe not.

I prefer to leave each person their own ideas. If you’re Christian, fine. Buddhist? A-okay. People should be allowed freedom of thought, freedom to form their own opinions. But, on the other hand, your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins-- your right to your ideas is fine as long as your ideas do not include limiting or eliminating my rights. In other words, people should respect each other’s religious - or nonreligious - metaphysical beliefs, instead of killing each other, hurting each other, and going to war with each other over them.

I mean that in the broadest possible sense…

09-13-2003, 02:23 AM	#1
Hermione monkey Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,060	Atheists Okay.. I don't know if this belongs here or not, but I figured it would arouse some opinions.. okay.. so why does one become an atheist? Is there a specific incident that makes a person deny the existence in god? I've been wondering about this for awhile. I'm not trying to be mean.. I am just curious

09-13-2003, 01:13 PM	#4
zenbabe Lollypop! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: we are all made of stars Posts: 11,690	I was always under the impression that scientists were all athiests, simply because they believe in fact and not on the unknown. I read an article the other day stating that there were more religious scientists than athiests...that tripped me out! I think athiests come from the POV that there is no proof, never has been and never will be. I think some people need some kind of proof to believe in something. The whole big bang theroy vs. evolution thing/adam and eve thing... __________________ Be yourself, because the people that mind don't matter, and the people that matter don't mind. -Dr. Seuss

09-13-2003, 02:38 PM	#11
zenbabe Lollypop! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: we are all made of stars Posts: 11,690	I'm frisbitarian, I believe when I die, my soul will land on the roof and never come down... __________________ Be yourself, because the people that mind don't matter, and the people that matter don't mind. -Dr. Seuss

09-13-2003, 03:26 PM	#14
moel Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: dithyramb Posts: 3,102	i think the same... it goes along the lines of the laws of thermodynamics... energy cannot be created or distroyed. We die and the energy leaves our body and that is all that is left to us. Pure energy. no heaven of any kind; no hell of any kind. Which begs the question... what is the soul? And it's not James Brown. Of course i am oversimplifying this. Last edited by moel : 09-13-2003 at 03:46 PM.

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09-13-2003, 02:35 AM	#2
malina leaving Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: up on the hill Posts: 6,013	you don't "become" an atheist... you just are i have no reason to believe in a "god" so i don't

09-13-2003, 12:46 PM	#3
fodder Posts: n/a	i think this should be switched around you should be telling us why you believe in a god it's the believers responsibility to convince us, not everyone elses to convince you otherwise

09-13-2003, 01:56 PM	#7
AllegroNg What I Am Wearing. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Near DC Posts: 2,573	It's like the whole Santa Clause thing. It's rather heart breaking to learn that there is no Santa, and that I was lied to for all those years. How is that not the same as a god? If no one had tried ot tell me there was one, I would never have guessed.

09-13-2003, 02:22 PM	#8
fodder Posts: n/a	i just assumed it would turn into a debate because it's in the debate thread. it's no one's responsibility to convince anyone else of anything. but, if you want to debate over the existence of god, etc, the believers should be the ones proving it to the scientists. after all, they are the ones making the argument. like in astrology: it's not the astronomer's role to explain why it doesn't exist, it's the astrologer's to explain why he/she thinks it does. imo, i don't see how anyone can argue for religion since they don't know. i also don't think faith is a reason as beliefs =/ knowledge. but me, i just think when i die i'm dead and i don't know what else happens after that but hopefully i will turn into energy

09-13-2003, 02:25 PM	#9
moel Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: dithyramb Posts: 3,102	yeah, i'm agnostic, not necessarily atheist

09-13-2003, 03:12 PM	#13
Hermione monkey Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,060	That's really interesting. Fodder-- what do you mean you hope you turn into energy? (sorry if this is a stupid question)

09-13-2003, 04:14 PM	#15
rapscalious rob Posts: n/a	Just throwing some ideas out… There was (is) a professor from Texas who wrote a contraversial book called Omega Theory. In it, he expounds the idea, which he calls Omega Theory, through complicated and, for me, indecipherably complex mathematics, that we will (probably) have eternal life through some kind of looping mechanism. I didn’t understand that much of it, because the math was way over my head. If you look at the many-histories interpretation of quantum mechanics, perhaps in this universe/timeline you die but in an alternate one you continue living. Regarding atheism, there are a variety of reasons a person might choose not to believe in god. Perhaps a person’s god let him or her down in a very important way -- such as a loved one dying in an accident. Perhaps the person grew up in a religious environment in which they were hurt by misguided practitioners of that religion -- as in my maternal grandmother’s case, who became an atheist after a bad experience with abusive nuns. Perhaps the person grew up among atheists (like me). Perhaps the person is rebelling against an oppressive religious upbringing. Who knows? Personally, I think maybe there’s a god -- but if so, it doesn’t have a sex and I cannot personally appeal to it. My idea is more of a pantheism-- the miracle of the emergence of life in the universe, and the miracle of the universe itself. Not intelligent design, necessarily. Just an appreciation of the permutations of events that led to us being here-- the improbability of it and the hugeness of it. The fact that we come from stars is pretty amazing. Could that be called god? maybe not. I prefer to leave each person their own ideas. If you’re Christian, fine. Buddhist? A-okay. People should be allowed freedom of thought, freedom to form their own opinions. But, on the other hand, your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins-- your right to your ideas is fine as long as your ideas do not include limiting or eliminating my rights. In other words, people should respect each other’s religious - or nonreligious - metaphysical beliefs, instead of killing each other, hurting each other, and going to war with each other over them. I mean that in the broadest possible sense…