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Old 06-14-2005, 09:31 PM   #1
dinzdale
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Board Dynamics

Well, here we go again, more ranting and gnashing of teeth.

Just my humble opinion.
I think the very size and scale of the membership in this board has grown so large and cumbersome that very little of the orignal personality has remained. Very little is actually imparted in the way of information or even entertainment. I'm feel that Ze has always left to us to play and come up with new stuff, but it has become a very stale place for ideas.
I suppose I'm scribbling this after today's fracas, where once again, the loudest voices only were heard. Right or wrong, it was only the pile of irrelevance that gets heard.
I'm not a philospher, or a man of great highminded conversation, and I know we wont put the world to rights, but this is just tedious.
It seems to me (opinion alert), it seems to me that if someone has an opinion , valid or otherwise, it is never constructively dealt with.
And then there are all the judgments when everyone seems to try to be first not to judge.
Example : If an opinion was given of say "I dont like eskimos" the loud voices would defend all things innuit, and berate the opinioned person for having such a shocking rascist view, regardless of any explanation (which the opinion giver doesnt necessarliy have to give any of us). Others would just post large pictures of fatuous images.
Now, if the opinion was "I dont like republicans" because the loudest voices would be "hear, hear..well said...GWB is a such and such" and the opinion part of the general concensus of this large cumbersome gathering, barely a comment would arise.

I dont know, I'm rambling, but basically, is this place now too big and unwieldly to allow any single opinion not in line with the majority to even be heard without chastisement.

Whatever.
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Old 06-14-2005, 09:56 PM   #2
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There seems to be a gang mentality going on. Squash who you don't like, bark at em, post really classy pictures. Yell shut up.

I tried getting one person corralled, one who totally corrupted any intelligent conversation and i succeeded in getting scrubbed off the board by the gang, I realized that my attempt might have been heavy handed, and even apologized to the person in question, but to not much avail. I got attacked for posting personal things, posting pics of my kid, and sharing stuff I did for a living. The clique makes it uncomfortable for anyone they decide not to like and impossible to apologize, impossible to exist.

So, I am relegated to sniper. I shoot only if necessary and get the hell out. Dodge isnt big enough for all of us, now that its the OK Corrall.

Isn't it amazing how it morphed into the lowest common denominator?
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:05 PM   #3
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Question then....is it just because of the number of people here will inevitably tend to that position, or is it just because of any particular individual or sub-group of individuals?
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:30 PM   #4
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Being that there is no Creed of Civility, the Clique rules the roost.
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Old 06-15-2005, 04:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audreyvgs
Being that there is no Creed of Civility, the Clique rules the roost.
You can't have a pecking order if people don't get pecked.
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:36 PM   #6
Coffee
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I'm not sure what "the lowest common denominator" is Aud...or if there is such a thing. Humans seem to have historically had a nearly infinite ability to be as horrid as possible to each other...and a just as infinite ability to rationalize their behavior.

Regarding the quashing of opinion, though; that seems to be perpetrated by a subset of individuals who show disregard for (for lack of a better term, I'm not a writter/wordsmith) "the golden rule". Or perhaps they do wish to be treated like laughing stocks themselves and do in fact follow the "golden rule"???

A portion of the board treats others on the board with the same respect they would if they met face to face, another portion of the board acts as though "anything goes" since this is "just a message board...get over it". I naturally feel judgemental about that since I believe myself to be in the former group, and because i'm a green as the grass hippie that believes all life, even all people deserve respect.

If a town meeting were held in real life regarding poor treatment of some member of the town, and an individual stood up and talked about dicks and drunks (possibly to distract from the discussion???...or water it down with irrelevance???)...they would be ejected from the town meeting. Here it seems to function somewhat in the reverse...those that try to adress the issue of "was someone mistreated" are barraged with irrelevant images, crys of "shut-up", and "who the **** do you think you are?". Regarding the last...we don't know...that's what we are trying to figure out. Who the **** are "those other people" The puppets and multi-characters? And are they messing with other people's heads? And is there any way to prevent it from happening. Perhaps we can't know, and quite possibly we can't prevent it...But silence about the issue just gives tacit approval of the behavior.

Wink wink nudge nudge, aren't We cool cuz WE arent the ones who got fooled.

^^^**** that.

Wink wink nudge nudge, aren't We cool cuz we aren't the N***** hanging from the tree.

^^^**** that.

A hang man came to town...but I was silent because he didn't come for me...
Till I was the only one left to hang.

Last edited by Coffee : 06-14-2005 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:46 PM   #7
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I'm having a hard time accepting it. I've been reporting all this to SmartyPants who, in his wisdom, is just ignoring it... He used to be the moderator for an AOL forum, and AOL has very very strict guidelines for participation, which were up to the moderator to enforce. His way of dealing with most everything was to let things play themselves out - although he *did* delete posts by people who were just outright threatening or otherwise inexcusably unpleasant. We don't have any such guidelines here, and I have to admit, in this situation, the only obvious thing that's going on is "off-topic" activity, however sensitive those of us who actually know what's going are to the barrage of crap.
I wish we could think of a way to monitor the board that didn't seem like censorship. I wouldn't want to impose my personal sense of propriety on what's supposed to be a public board. But I wish we could do away with unkindness.
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:54 PM   #8
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"If a town meeting were held in real life regarding poor treatment of some member of the town, and an individual stood up and talked about dicks and drunks (possibly to distract from the discussion???...or water it down with irrelevance???)...they would be ejected from the town meeting. Here it seems to function somewhat in the reverse..."

No kidding. Good point.

Dinz, Aud, Coff - I like you guys (and gal).
(Not meaning to lighten or retardize the sentiment of this thread. I agree with everything you guys said)
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:58 PM   #9
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D'ope! Didn't intentionally exclude anyone from my warm, fuzzy circle of admiration. I was typing up this response right after Coffee posted his post.
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Old 06-18-2005, 09:23 AM   #10
priceyfatprude
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Some great points in this thread, made by all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee
But silence about the issue just gives tacit approval of the behavior.
I'm not picking on you, Coffee. I have too much personal respect and admiration for you to do that.

But this same sentence has been said more than once here & I don't necessarily think it's true.

Sometimes it's not worth it to get into it w/someone, if they post something you don't like or do not agree with. You're not sure if a thread is just a game between the posters that you were not invited to, or what.

I'd like to remind everyone of a night a certain shadow puppet pulled up & had an argument w/me in a thread. The only one who came to my defense was NYC. She did not know the thread had turned into a game for the puppet & I, but then, neither did the rest of you. *shrugs* Just sayin'.

In the Debate Hall, that's different. I would like to think everyone knows that we say what WE feel, at the time, and we mean what WE say, at that time & not everyone has to agree on everything & that's the end of it. What a boring world this would be w/o a little diversity.

It would be nice if we could respect each other's differing opinions, but when it comes to something I'm not comfortable with, well then I just can't. Akin to someone thinking it's ok to abuse animals & me thinking that it's not: I don't think I should have to respect the differing opinion in this case, b/c it's cruel & inhumane. I can see how some people could feel that way about ALL differing opinions & I guess that's their right. But what a bleak world they must live in. I personally enjoy when someone has succeeded in getting me to see their point of view, but that doesn't mean I will then agree w/that person.

I generally only speak up when I have a visceral, "I do not agree, and feel the need now to say something about it." reaction. It takes quite a bit to piss me off, but once you're there, look. Out.

As for things that have happened here this week, or every 6 months, really: remember, there are 2 sides to every story. Carrying the wreckage through several threads for several days does nothing but prolong the drama, and irritate those who winced at it the first time it was posted, and sort of tells the other person's side w/o them having to post a single word.
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Old 06-18-2005, 11:48 AM   #11
venusupnorth
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I've not really said much about my opinions on this matter because it will probably start another party for the people on here that get a kick out of bashing people. What I said has spoken for itself and a few good people on here have gone out of their way to justify it, I did this to warn other people on here, not to improve my popularity points or high opinions of people that go around this board calling newcomers c*nt, d*ck, etc. Getting threatening mail and having shadow puppets send me cruel comments on MYSPace (that started a while ago actually) only goes to show that I must be doing something that is bringing out the worst in these freaks, yes Freaks; only a freak goes around threatening people like that. This is a public board and like a few people have said on here there are alot of members and ofcource we're not going to like everyone, that's life deal with it.

P.S. the shadow puppets that try to PM me on here or e-mail me at my hotmail get a step by step instruction on how to program in PHP, if you're this bored I might be able to interest you in learning something new. I even have instructions on how to learn color theory through Photoshop, anything to help you get some healthy interests going
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Last edited by venusupnorth : 06-18-2005 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 06-18-2005, 05:26 PM   #12
Gatsby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priceyfatprude
Sometimes it's not worth it to get into it w/someone, if they post something you don't like or do not agree with.
I'm with Pricey on this one. On this board, silence isn't always tacit approval.

On this board, when things start to go wrong, they get ugly very, very fast. Things get nasty and personal and all in public.

I think the root of this is that it's a public board with relatively relaxed moderators, so everyone feels "entitled" to be here, and "entitled" to post whatever they'd like. When someone's feeling of entitlement is undermined, people take it personally. And they strike back in nasty, inappropriate, over the top ways.

It often takes serious restraint on my part to not tell people exactly what I think of their shenanigans. Often, in my own opinion, I have some worthwhile things to add to the fray (my own sense of entitlement). However, I rarely get involved, because I know it will, almost without fail, result in a personal attack on ME, and an assumption that I've joined one-side-or-another.

This, of course, is never true - I try hard not to join sides in a personal argument. I restrict my proselytizing to politics and the Debate Hall. Because pointing out someone else's asinine behavior, no matter how egregious it is, will automatically make you a "drama queen" on this board, one of the ones who're labeled "the first to show up in a controversy." F**k that.

Jezis gawd, if there were two things I wish people on this board would learn, it would be (1) how to give constructive criticism that isn't an attack; and (2) the value of ACCEPTING constructive criticism, and REALIZING that it isn't an attack. Oh, and let me add a third: KEEPING IT OFF BOARD.

This board is a COMMUNITY, and public frays between members affects us all. We're all entitled to be here, and, as a corollary we're NOT entitled to run everyone (or anyone) else off, either directly or through passive-agressive posting. Keep it to your PMs, please, because the rest of us don't want our nice friendly threads soiled with it.

The End.
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinzdale
Very little is actually imparted in the way of information or even entertainment. I'm feel that Ze has always left to us to play and come up with new stuff, but it has become a very stale place for ideas.
professor dinzdale with all due repect, why don't YOU and for that matter EVERYONE

1. INFORM US

2. HAVE SOME IDEAS

3. COME UP WITH NEW STUFF

4. CREATE THREADS ABOUT STUFF THAT INTERESTS YOU AND THAT MAY OR MAY NOT INTEREST OTHERS - IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER



or is that someone else's job?


love and biscuits

-=zero
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Old 06-14-2005, 11:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinzdale
Well, here we go again, more ranting and gnashing of teeth.

Just my humble opinion.
I think the very size and scale of the membership in this board has grown so large and cumbersome that very little of the orignal personality has remained. Very little is actually imparted in the way of information or even entertainment. I'm feel that Ze has always left to us to play and come up with new stuff, but it has become a very stale place for ideas.
I suppose I'm scribbling this after today's fracas, where once again, the loudest voices only were heard. Right or wrong, it was only the pile of irrelevance that gets heard.
I'm not a philospher, or a man of great highminded conversation, and I know we wont put the world to rights, but this is just tedious.
It seems to me (opinion alert), it seems to me that if someone has an opinion , valid or otherwise, it is never constructively dealt with.
And then there are all the judgments when everyone seems to try to be first not to judge.
Example : If an opinion was given of say "I dont like eskimos" the loud voices would defend all things innuit, and berate the opinioned person for having such a shocking rascist view, regardless of any explanation (which the opinion giver doesnt necessarliy have to give any of us). Others would just post large pictures of fatuous images.
Now, if the opinion was "I dont like republicans" because the loudest voices would be "hear, hear..well said...GWB is a such and such" and the opinion part of the general concensus of this large cumbersome gathering, barely a comment would arise.

I dont know, I'm rambling, but basically, is this place now too big and unwieldly to allow any single opinion not in line with the majority to even be heard without chastisement.

Whatever.
how many people do you think would it take for a board where all opinions could be heard and respected?

this whole phenomenon of "shouting" is a common thing we see in group survival actually. to keep your place in a group you must either stand out, or go with the most popular opinion. it's natural group behavior as well as a survival strategy. it's instinct.

anyway, whatever happened to the boards that were inspired by this one? those had a smaller population, right? did the same things occur?
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Old 06-14-2005, 11:23 PM   #15
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^^^ oddly and thankfully, no. We all get along like peas in a pod.
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Knight 1: We are now the Knights who say.... "Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-PTANG! Zoom-Boing! Z'nourrwringmm!"
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