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Old 07-20-2005, 12:53 PM   #121
trisherina
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I thought that the whole point of the movie was that faith is tenuous and doubt holds fast in the way we actually experience and interact with the world. For even the most devout, faith waxes and wanes because we are human, not perfect divine beings, and hey -- if your waning happens to be on the day of judgment, bad luck for you. But going through the motions doesn't help much when you're dealing with an omniscient force who knows what's in your heart.

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I find it amazing that the Mimi Rogers character could be staring at the resurrection of her family right in front of her, proof of all God's promises for thousands of years finally fulfilled, and she rejects it outright because things didn't go the way she had it all planned out for herself.
I didn't see it that way at all. She simply could not bring herself to continue believing in a supreme being who would want her to kill her own beloved in its service. As my mother was fond of saying regards the crucifixion: "Any parent who would do that to his OWN SON..." (insert incoherent hissing noises here). She understood how bleak eternity was going to be, and wished she could join the joyous. But the tether of her trust had snapped.
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Old 07-20-2005, 04:56 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by trisherina
I didn't see it that way at all. She simply could not bring herself to continue believing in a supreme being who would want her to kill her own beloved in its service. As my mother was fond of saying regards the crucifixion: "Any parent who would do that to his OWN SON..." (insert incoherent hissing noises here). She understood how bleak eternity was going to be, and wished she could join the joyous. But the tether of her trust had snapped.
So in a way - the movie was saying that whether or not God exists, there's a point where forgiveness is impossible - the pain caused was too great?

I wish, then, that the movie could have continued to explore - what happens next? Obviously she's not in hell... There are probably others left on the planet in the same predicament. Could they perhaps meet up and create a community? The movie implies that she's there for eternity, which seems to imply that she won't need to eat, or drink, or anything like that (I mean, for her to walk around for eternity starving would be hell) so either she doesn't need to eat and drink, or there's some kind of eternal snack bar set up for her and the others to hang out at.

See - this is one of the big problems I have with the concepts of "God" and "heaven" etc. All these belief systems are based on our material existence. All the rewards and threats are based on it too - burning for eternity, or spending eternity worshipping some entity (which doesn't really sound that great to me) and singing in a heavenly choir (which doesn't either - I like to be the soloist ). But *everything* points to our material existence being discarded, and it's that part of us that needs to eat and breathe and sleep and protect and all those other things our bodies need to survive. Heck, even our *brains* are material - all those synapses firing, set off by chemicals reacting with each other - our *brains* are even left behind. So whatever's left - if anything - what seems to be left is what we've done with our lives, and how it impacts other people, animals, the planet, the universe.

If there *is* a God, and I don't really think there is, at least not in the way most religions describe "God", it must be something that every single bit of "something" and "nothing" is part of. And there's where science ends up seeming to be the best way to explore reality, not a bunch of irrational and conflicting fairy tales that set us against each other.
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Old 07-20-2005, 07:44 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by trisherina
I thought that the whole point of the movie was that faith is tenuous and doubt holds fast in the way we actually experience and interact with the world. For even the most devout, faith waxes and wanes because we are human, not perfect divine beings, and hey -- if your waning happens to be on the day of judgment, bad luck for you. But going through the motions doesn't help much when you're dealing with an omniscient force who knows what's in your heart.

(not sure why my part of the quote wasn't duplicated here)

I didn't see it that way at all. She simply could not bring herself to continue believing in a supreme being who would want her to kill her own beloved in its service. As my mother was fond of saying regards the crucifixion: "Any parent who would do that to his OWN SON..." (insert incoherent hissing noises here). She understood how bleak eternity was going to be, and wished she could join the joyous. But the tether of her trust had snapped.
^You're right, Trish, I think that the movie is about the snapping of trust. I think you've really articulated it well. I guess the movie's not as ambiguous as I thought. And it's not a phenomenon, I think this sort of thing happens all the time with Christians. It's definitely happened with me at various points in my life.
Unlike a movie, though, I find myself inexorably wooed back again and again by the sheer goodness of God, and time brings perspective on events that I couldn't see clearly through at the time. The fact that this happens to Mimi Rogers during the Apocalypse of all things is (ahem) perhaps a unique situation, a writer's "what if?" The truth is we get lots and lots of chances to reject God every moment in every decision of every day, and lots and lots of chances to change our minds with no consequences about running back like a prodigal child.

I've heard that "own son" comment come out of my older sister's mouth, and she's an ordained minister. She puts it in another perspective though. She's been in therapy for the last ten years dealing with horrible, nightmarish abuse issues from her girlhood, and gets completely annoyed with chirpy religious platitudes that say "Hang in there, God will bless you and save you if you pray harder (have more faith/ confess your sins so He'll hear you/ forgive others completely/ blah blah ginger)!"
"Oh for crying out loud," she snaps. "God's not going to take me around it. He going to take me straight through it. I'm there. I'm in hell. Just look at what he did to his own SON! What the f*** makes you think I would get off any easier than he did? Sorry darlin', I'm in this for the long haul."
This comment shocked me when I first heard it, but it makes sense in light of how we're instructed as followers to take up our own cross and follow Christ in identification with him. Unbelievably, she's actually emerged with faith intact from the ordeal. She's a very different person now who won't take any crap, and I'm not sure I even like her very much anymore, but I admire her authenticity and persistence.

Without the resurrection, Christianity has no power. There's some very nice advice there about being nice to each other, but following through with it perfectly is impossible without the resurrection, without the Holy Spirit.

Smarty, as far as I'm concerned, Texas is fair game - go for it! After living in Texas for six hellish years, I saw it over and over again - Christianity, "Religion" with a capital "R" - a long list of do's and don'ts accompanied by an equally long list of shunning variants and social punishments doled out for violations - without any true grace, acceptance, love or power, no real welcoming of the Holy Spirit into daily lives. There were pockets of it here and there, and not surprisingly from people who didn't even identify formally with Jesus, but generally, organized religious worship there was something you did on Sunday and forgot about for the rest of the week. It was a load of crap. I turned my back on religion and Christianity in particular for years after my dad died when I was 17. The teetotalling, the bans on dancing, the homophobia, the hypocrisy, the complete and utter lack of compassion in the face of overwhelming grief - what a load of crap. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus.

Lala, you say that these are all "irrational and conflicting fairy tales" but this idea of resurrection is an extremely persistent myth throughout a lot of cultures. I believe it's hard-wired into the collective unconscious for a reason.
It gives life a richness and shape and sense of purpose to millions. All one has to do is look around at nature itself and see it illustrated over and over - from the death of a seed in the ground resulting in flower, the rotting carcass of an animal giving life to maggots, on up to even Julia Sweeney's career that's resurrected out of a loved one's death to become an expert lecturer on the non-existence of God, my own resurrected love for Christ - and miraculously, for others. Some people call it science, Mother Nature, the Triumph of the Human Spirit, some people call it Jesus and the Resurrection, and some people simply call it the Fingerprint of God.

It doesn't really matter what anyone calls it. There are fundamentalist Christians (one of my brothers is one) who would violently disagree with me about that, but (if he was actually speaking to me these days ) I would remind him that the work of the cross was complete, and the fact of it remains regardless of its label or how much he gets into people's faces about it.
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:09 PM   #124
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Regarding hell, Lala, I actually thought the movie did a great job (however briefly) of picturing the vast whirling wilderness of bleak emptiness and apartness that for human beings would be the most unendurable eternity imaginable -- especially knowing that all the true believers, even the slacker last-minute-oh-yeah ones, were forever in joy and glory without us. If we are to retain any sense of self at all in the afterlife, what a horrible way to be. I do think that yep, probably in time Mimi's faith would have been restored, but not on THAT particular day, and it made a crucial difference. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Now, Brynn, I've got to ask you about this business of the resurrection being essential to Christianity. For me, the fact that resurrection myths persist in many different cultures (with many different casts of characters) only renders the Christian one more suspect and me-too-ish. When I was engaged in earnest Bible study, there were some things I could "get" fairly easily: for instance, the need to practise one's faith in community -- today we leave the days on end of lone contemplation and sole, vision-filled communication with God in a room of one's own to the paranoid schizophrenics on assured income for the severely handicapped. So okay, practise your faith in community, make cookies for the child molester, I'm cool with that. I also understood why the image of Jesus on the cross is a powerful one to identify with for anyone who, like your sister, has known what it is like to be unclothed and ashamed and unable to stop your persecutor. Simple enough. But if I can't buy the whole notion of the resurrection, why does that make me a lousy Christian? I left Bible study behind when I was told in answer to this question that "It's part of the package. And you have to take the whole package." HUH? Screw you, and your little dog, too! I'm not here to buy insurance, dammit! And that was the best answer I ever received; usually people just said something evasive and presumably prayed I'd go away soon. Probably had something to do with the fact that I was the only adherent quoting Skeptic magazine on study nights.

Speaking of movies, I tended to like what Saul in The Last Temptation of Christ said when he ran into a very alive and breathing Jesus even as he was preaching the tale of his resurrection: It doesn't matter whether it's true or not. It's the power of the message that's important.

BTW, I watched The Rapture and The Last Temptation of Christ back to back one night many years back, nevermindwhy. As an experience, though, I highly recommend it.
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Old 07-25-2005, 06:36 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by trisherina
Now, Brynn, I've got to ask you about this business of the resurrection being essential to Christianity. For me, the fact that resurrection myths persist in many different cultures (with many different casts of characters) only renders the Christian one more suspect and me-too-ish.

But if I can't buy the whole notion of the resurrection, why does that make me a lousy Christian? I left Bible study behind when I was told in answer to this question that "It's part of the package. And you have to take the whole package." HUH? Screw you, and your little dog, too! I'm not here to buy insurance, dammit! And that was the best answer I ever received; usually people just said something evasive and presumably prayed I'd go away soon. Probably had something to do with the fact that I was the only adherent quoting Skeptic magazine on study nights.
LOL! I would have loved to have been in that Bible study class. I at least would have had someone to wrestle with these questions with me instead of always getting pat answers like that from people who had grown up in the church their whole lives and had never even questioned the existence of the resurrection or Jesus or heaven and hell and had no idea of what I was asking, let alone how to respond.
Which is not to say that I know how to respond correctly either, but i love the fact that you dared to bring it up in that setting. I think it's essential to demand these answers - after all, the word "Israel" means "to wrestle with God." I'm not interested in a god who made me intelligent and then said "Well, you're a lousy Christian if you don't just swallow this fantastic fish story without any reservations whatsoever." I do believe in a God who wants all of me - even my mind and my personality and my powers of reason - engaged in partnership with him.
The idea of proclaiming someone else to be a "lousy Christian" at all is one that I just can't wrap my head around anymore. I disagree with Christians who insist that everyone be on the same page as them, and prefer to think of where I am in my faith as part of an ongoing (and for the most part private) process. This is not open for evaluation by any Tom Dick or Harry Christian unless I've specifically asked for feedback or guidance. I'm sick of being judged by other Christians and I don't think judging where I am in my faith is a job anybody can adequately address anyway. Community is extremely important, but communion is more so. By that I mean that I tend to take the really big questions directly to God in prayer, and keep asking until I'm at peace about it.
The resurrection is essential to me because that's where all the power of Christ is - at least the power that goes beyond abstract intellectualism. It's the power that came to my rescue in a desperate situation 13 years ago, the power that moved into my inner being and changed me. It's the same power that is at work in my daily life, the power that answers my prayers and even miraculously provides for me against all reason when I can't pay rent or buy groceries or handle a tough situation otherwise.
If Jesus had just been murdered by a mob, I doubt very seriously that I would be a Christian today because frankly, I tend to need some pretty obvious, dramatic things to happen in my life to be convinced of the power of anything. Looking backwards at the crisis I was facing just before I became a Christian, believe me, some dead philosopher/prophet type just wasn't going to cut it.
Resurrection is about as dramatic as it gets, because death itself is defeated. For me anyway, every answered prayer for guidance, for forgiveness, for intervention, for peace, protection, contentment, for greater love, endurance and self-control springs from the power of the resurrection. So yeah, for me, that's pretty essential. The journey I'm on to discover deeper and deeper truths about the resurrection is unique, as is yours and anyone else's. All I can say is that belief in it was a choice I made at a crucial point in my life. The decision to go ahead and believe in it preceded the evidence that came later. Kierkegaarrd called this "the leap of faith."

I don't put it that way to be evasive - I just don't know how else to answer it. It's really hard to articulate an experience of the heart and soul as opposed to say, an intellectual epiphany. Others will talk about how there were five hundred witnesses of the actual resurrection of Jesus, and can show you fifteen different historical documents that corroborate it independently, etc. but I'd heard all that my whole life. Nothing outside of personal experience spoke to me as compellingly.

The fact that the resurrection myth shows up in other cultures doesn't bother me at all - Brian McLaren explains it well in his book about post-modern Christianity (A New Kind Of Christian) when he describes all disciplines of belief in God as "placeholders" in our hearts for essential truth, and how we all find the same truth eventually if we search wholeheartedly. Dabbling in Jungian psychology doesn't hurt either when it comes to accomodating resurrection myths of all kinds.
There are Christians/Unitarians, etc. who are fine with believing in just the philosophy of Jesus, and admire him the way we admire other philosophers or Martin Luther King or Beethoven or Kandinsky or Shakespeare. I don't quite understand why they would necessarily want to be known as Christians if they don't believe in the resurrection, especially now when it really is not cool to be a Christian anyway. It may be politically expedient in Washington D.C. these days, but definitely not anything to bring up at, say, a cocktail party in Portland, OR. and expect an average person to want talk to you much after that. Whatever anyone believes has everything to do with the particular path they are on. Jesus and the resurrection rings true for me based on what has happened to me in particular.
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Old 07-29-2005, 05:09 AM   #126
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Nothing outside of personal experience spoke to me as compellingly.
Well, that's another somewhat familiar answer I've heard, though usually not in response to this particular question. The root of the answer goes something like:

"I have faith because my interaction and experience with people and objects in the world confirms the existence of God (Jesus Christ, Allah, Guru Nanak, whomever) and the truth of (their) teachings."

But what keeps you from wondering if you haven't just been duped by a powerful combination of hope, wishful thinking (no, these are not the same thing), and yummy squirts of brain chemistry at the right time and place? Hardly unheard of, and for less believable notions than religious ones. If you do wonder, what makes you decide you haven't been duped? How are you sure you aren't just trying to wind up on the right side of Pascal's Wager?
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Old 07-29-2005, 06:19 PM   #127
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acck, so many words.
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:12 AM   #128
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Sorry Red.
You'll be glad to know that the lengthy, extremely thoughtful and elegant reply I had to Trish's question that I'd just worked on for a couple of hours was completely wiped out when my computer disconnected without my permission, so you needn't bother skipping it now .

You might even say "Thank you Jaysus!"

I'm glad I bothered though - I got to work some stuff out, so thanks for asking the question anyway, Trish.

I found a good discussion of Pascal's Wager though.

For me, the big question right now is not whether God exists or not, but how do I keep my terrier from peeing in the sunroom when the fawking door is wide open? That's definitely going to take an act of God, because I've tried everything else.
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:56 AM   #129
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That's where I am. With the terrier.
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Old 07-31-2005, 03:26 PM   #130
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Sorry Red.
You'll be glad to know that the lengthy, extremely thoughtful and elegant reply I had to Trish's question that I'd just worked on for a couple of hours was completely wiped out when my computer disconnected without my permission...
Ah...divine intervention?

Preamble:

By way of introduction, I'm new in town...just passing through...I go my Kos or Kos****, depending on the level of irritation I am able to create. I came upon this very compelling thread, quite by accident, just as I found this forum. I think a thanks is order to ZEFrank...and after viewing his website video, I believe he is a true comic genius. So thanks for the large laughs, Z!

One thing is quite apparent to me: there is some very thoughtful, compelling and well-crafted prose offered on this topic. So, if you don't mind, I'll just sit a spell, and maybe occasionally try to contribute something meaningful, in an unmean way. BtW I especially appreciate the tone and civility of this forum...very impressive, and inviting...

The Message:

OK. The resurrection. Until I began reading the Bible as a poem - a song, if you will, I had a problem with all of the hyperbole and implausibilities. I was exposed(sorry) to Catholism at a very early age. I left, when I was first able to talk, then walk...

At the risk of sounding pretentious, I'll try to distill the message of the New Testament, as I understand it:

Substitutionary atonement by the Christ...and a loving relationship with God, not through works, but Grace.

The rest are details, to turn Einstien's phrase...

In reading Joseph Campbell, "The Power of Myth" and "Hero of a Thousand Faces", I am struck more by the profound similarities of spirituallity, not to be confused with religion for purposes of this discussion. When one takes a giant step back, say 3,000 years or so, from the microcosmic legality of religion, and enters the macrocosmic (not microKosmic) realm, we can began to see the common motif in all of them. So just as Gaia(Mother Earth), the macrocosm, has it's seasons, Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter, so it is with the microcosm...man's constant seeking to fill the God shaped void in our existence. The ressurrection, to me, is a season, analogous to Spring; the essence of hope and expectation, for another chance to get it right...

The Bible, unfortunately, is THE classic example of a very nice idea gone very very wrong. The good news is that Guttenberg picked the Bible to democratize the 'good news', the gospel. The bad news is the same people that controlled the media then, are the same people doing it now - suits - now only wearing Calvin Klein. The Bible has evolved into one of the most powerful political manifestos in the relatively short history of man. IMO, any polemics advanced in the name of any god, are 'blasphemous'. So, eventhough there are elements of the Bible and every other coda of organized religion, like the Koran, Uphanishads, etc...if we read them as poetry...the common message is unmistakeable..."love your neighbor, as your self..." even if he has a Bush/Cheney bumpersticker...for me, the ultimate test of fatih.

"I tremble when I think God is just...."

I'll end here...as I'm already late for Sunday mass...

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Old 08-02-2005, 09:43 PM   #131
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Hi Kosmick - nice to meetcha!

Yes, divine intervention, definitely. Exactly my thought!

I love "The Power Of Myth" ! I used to be pretty familiar with it, although in a fit of generosity I loaned my copy of it to a friend and never saw it again. But I have to say, it had a powerful effect on me at a time when I really wanted nothing to do at all with any kind of spirituality whatsoever. I first saw the video series of interviews with Bill Moyer and then got the book. It led me to explore a lot more stuff, and I loved the spirit of wonder and astonishment with which Campbell approached all the global expressions of spirituality.

Interestingly enough, in my memory Campbell didn't really explore Christianity quite as much, so it became something I wanted to learn more about from the kind of perspective that Campbell brought to other disciplines - his approach had made me much more conciliatory about Christianity in general, anyway. It still wasn't something I wanted to devote my life to though, but the over-arching story of it became something rich enough to meditate upon.

However, for some reason, there was one picture Campbell talked about that lodged itself vividly into my imagination, and that was the medieval "Wheel of Fate."

It showed a woman wielding a giant wheel that she spun, determining the fortunes of those along the rim. You were either at the sides, heading up to the top of your fate, or descending down to the dregs of your fortune. That's when Dr. Campbell smiled and said, to effect, "Ah, but the trick is not to live your life out there on the rim, at Fortune's mercy, is it? The real trick is to be at the center of the turning wheel. That's where you're most secure - there in the center, following your bliss."

Later, when I became a Christian, this image came back to me again and again, especially in lessons about being content and secure in Christ in spite of our circumstances. Christianity doesn't promise that you won't go through hell - but it does promise that peace is possible in the midst of it if we focus on Jesus.
To me, this sort of thinking puts me right at the center of my own Wheel of Fortune, and faith (to sort of answer your question, Trish) becomes entirely an act of my free will as I choose what my perspective and focus is to be on.

I was thinking some more about that question. I wonder all the time at random moments if it's all a figment of my imagination, or if I'm really just hedging my bets (although I don't really have a problem with Pascal's Wager - I think it's a reasonably intelligent place to start). I think every Christian wonders.
But I was lying in bed, snuggled up next to my husband's back, and I thought about the times that each of us ever privately wondered whether or not it had been a good idea to get married. One's mind wanders over to all the alternate lives that could have been pursued, alternate lovers, alternate living situations. Was it a mistake? Is all this love just in my imagination or wishful thinking, or worse - am I really just with this person just to keep from being lonely?
But when I married - and thank goodness I didn't marry a Bad Guy - an abuser, a thief, someone who is mean to waitresses - he's a great guy, in fact. I didn't know how great when I married him but at the time, I took my vows seriously. So the idea of just chucking him if we hit a rough patch is unimaginable to me. I feel pretty secure that he feels the same way mostly because we talk about it all the time. And we both benefit enormously on so many levels from being with each other through the years, and the relationship grows and gets deeper and deeper, and the better I get to know him the more I love him.
I choose to stay with him and see it to the end of the story.

This is a pretty good picture of faith, of communion with Jesus, of the richness of discovery as the years unfold. I don't think it's an accident that Jesus is described in Revelations as The Bridegroom. I could no more leave him right now in my life than I could my own husband. Kinky, huh?
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Old 08-03-2005, 02:36 AM   #132
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<^>Thanks, Bryn, for sharing your personal reflections...aye...your groom is indeed a lucky lad...

Ack...Tuesday Night...just look at the time...already late for the Pagan Potluck and Bonfire...and my night to supply the sacrificial lamb...
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Old 08-03-2005, 02:55 AM   #133
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That's very interesting, Brynn.

It is certainly true that for some, there is no point at which (unlike Mimi Rogers in The Rapture) they would decide to turn their back on God for good. I find that incredible, personally, but I have witnessed it -- most recently in a local Lutheran minister whose son, an RCMP officer, was shot down at 25 during a grow-op raid, and whose first public statements thereafter included (alongside the certitude, generally expected, that his son had gone to a better place) a comment that he was "praying for the community" in terms of their managing his son's death. I admire him, but I am afraid that I am not so generous. Whether or not this relates to a crucial inability on my part to have a trusting relationship with another being, deified or no, I can't say for certain. Or I won't.
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Old 08-04-2005, 04:59 AM   #134
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I don't think I'm really at a point in my faith that I could honestly say I'd react that way either. I could only hope that I could, and I do know cognitively that my healing would probably progress faster if I did, but I can't begin to imagine the loss of a child.
I think I would curl up and die a little bit myself for a good long time. But that's why he's a Lutheran minister and I'm just me.

It's just that in real life (as opposed to The Rapture ) it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me to blame God for everything bad that happens. I mean, what's the point? When it comes to things I can't change, I can get angry and bitter, or I can try to accept it.
If we look at the Garden of Eden myth, we can see that God had every intention of constantly blessing man - He put him in a paradise, put him in charge of naming things, gave him a mate, and walked with him every night "in the cool of the evening." I can only imagine what they talked about. I tend to assume that Adam was getting instruction and was being prepared for things ahead. Everything was easy and safe, and Adam and Eve were allowed to eat anything in the garden except from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
I think about that tree sometimes. I mean, really, what does it mean to have an opinion about what good is and what evil is?

If we didn't have an opinion either way, I guess we'd be on a certain animal level that kills without guilt, regards others of our species without judgement of any kind, and really can't tell a "good" day from a "bad" day. And without judgement of that kind, there's no shame, and no fear of consequences, no fear, period. Not only that, but if there is pain, we wouldn't even have an opinion about that pain. It really is a state of true innocence.
With the knowledge of the tree, we stub our toe, say ouch and consider the fact that we just stubbed our toe a bad thing instead of just shrugging and continuing on in pain, adapting to it and accepting it instead of cursing and railing against it.
When Adam and Eve, deceived by the serpent, went against God's best advice and ate the fruit from that tree, they really had no idea what misery they were getting into - the misery of having an opinion about everything.

Well, I guess we can still blame God in that story - didn't He create the tree to begin with, and put it right there in front of them? It's kind of like handing a fork to a toddler and telling him to not put it into that electrical outlet over there.
But I can't help but feel, in the world of that story anyway, that God felt it was more important for man to have free will than to be innocent. Then He even provided damage control, propitiation for Adam and Eve's disobedience in the person of Jesus (the Bible alludes to Christ in the book of Genesis as the Seed of Eve that will one day bruise the serpent's head as the serpent bruises His heel (Gen 3:15).
With that story in mind, it's hard for me to see God as a perpetrator of evil. He directs the traffic, sure, but we're driving the cars and can obey him or not.
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:38 PM   #135
trisherina
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If you don't blame God for the bad things that happen while he's directing traffic and you were trying to be the best driver ever, then, why would you bother to praise or thank God when good things happen? Since you made it happen yourself with your free will, after all. What it boils down to there is that God is inconsequential, unless He decides not to be and make a big hairy thing of Himself. Reminds me a lot of the Canadian constitution. It's really no different from coping with a random universe. To paraphrase Heinlein, there is no luck, simply the ability or inability to deal with a statistical universe.
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