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Old 03-10-2003, 10:38 PM   #1
1kookykat
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This is the thread where randomness is called into question

induction n. Logic reasoning from particular facts or individual cases to a general conclusion; also, a conclusion reached by such reasoning: distinguished from deduction

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Why do we assume (take for granted?) the validity of induction if we believe (?) the universe is "random"?

We have no doubt that the toothpaste will come out of the tube when we squeeze it in the morning.

But in a chance universe, squeezing the tube could just as likely cause it to disappear, explode, recite Beowolf, or turn into a 900ton Fig Newton.

What justification do we have to assume the regularity of nature?
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Old 03-10-2003, 10:57 PM   #2
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often chaos is mislabeled "random". my favorite example of this is when static is called random. In fact if it were random, from time to time pure tones would be generated in static. the uniformity of the absence of signal provides a window into the underlying structure of static. that structure has become known as chaos. snow is another example. if snowfall were random, every now and then it would fall out of the sky in bricks or balls or at the very least big amorphous clumps. but snow isn't any more random then static.
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Old 03-10-2003, 11:08 PM   #3
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Hah! Knew you would come out for this one, Mr. Rick.

What is true randomness?
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Old 03-10-2003, 11:43 PM   #4
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my left butt cheek is covered in hives...

must be those stupid bees again.
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Old 03-10-2003, 11:56 PM   #5
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i'm not sure i believe in true randomness. that is a question whose underpinnings are like the question of "which came first, the chicken, or the egg?" on it's face it seems a question of circular logic but it becomes a query into one's belief in creationism or evolution. If one believes in creationism then the chicken came first because God created the animals and therefore the chickens which went on to lay eggs. If one believes in evolution then the egg came first because the ancestor of the chicken layed eggs before it was classifiable as a "chicken". It was, we suppose, a dinosaur of some sort that layed eggs that one day led to chickens. (also kind of settles the question of why everything tastes like chicken... if everything evolved from the same dino ancestor then it's not so much that everything tastes like chicken... everything INCLUDING chicken tastes like dinosaurs.)

is anything truly random? not if there is a consciousness running the show. not if there is a God.
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Old 03-11-2003, 06:44 AM   #6
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Noel - I'm not worried about the integrity of the thread. Talking philosophy or just screwing around, whatever. Personally, I like to mix them up and have a good time. After all, I'm not going to "save" anyone's soul.

beckstra - Were there bees in Ze's soup? (Did I miss something?) This fixation you have with your own butt is making us all curious. It must be very special indeed. Won't you share it with us? Got a webcam? C'mon Sister, show us the goods!

RedPrincess - Sorry abut the following use of semicolons; I happen to like them.

I don't want to make any pretense of "sneaking in the back door" to talk about God. Yes, I believe that the sun will come up tomorrow and the toothpaste will squirt out of the tube because there is no randomness; there is a God who maintains the regularity or uniformity of nature. What viable alternative propositions have naturalistic or materialistic scientists/philosophers come up with to answer the question of induction?

Maybe there are some out there, I don't know. But the viability (acceptability) of a proposition depends on one's most basic foundational commitments; one's core beliefs.

Which, by their very nature, must be self-authorizing or circular. That's right, we ALL reason in a circle, ultimately.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

A good steak doesn't taste like chicken.
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Old 03-11-2003, 02:40 PM   #7
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All I can say is that I agree that a good steak doesn't taste like chicken.
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Old 03-11-2003, 05:12 PM   #8
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out damn semi colon!!!! make 2 sentences, be concise, draw a breath
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Old 03-11-2003, 08:58 PM   #9
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Has the judge scheduled to preside over a case ever been randomly selected for jury duty on the same case?

maybe that should go in the other thread. or maybe the randomness of my posts suggests that they could all potentially fall here.

Voodoo - Godsmack

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That was funny Zyle!

Nice fish tale flabby!

4. With clothes covered in spam
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Old 03-11-2003, 10:38 PM   #10
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Oddly a good steak is one that has good fat marbeling... a marbeling is a chaotic distribution
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Old 03-11-2003, 10:52 PM   #11
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Yeah! Make mine bloody as hell with a Guinness.
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Old 03-12-2003, 01:30 AM   #12
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<---is saving her butt for Jesus.
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Old 03-12-2003, 02:48 AM   #13
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I can't tell if she's kidding or not, folks.

Just teasing, Beck. I know what you mean and it's very cool.
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