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Old 08-30-2005, 10:57 AM   #1
craig johnston
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is fascism sexy?

this topic has arisen in another thread and i thought it might be worth discussing.
there seems to be quite a lot of people in the world who find dressing up like a nazi sexy.
is this ok? is it an insult to the victims of the holocaust? where do you draw the line? is it acceptable to put constraints on human fantasies?
it has to be admitted that many (all?) people have sadistic/masochistic tendencies. how far should we be able to live them out?
that sort of thing......

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Old 08-30-2005, 11:14 AM   #2
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Everyone loves a Hugo Boss.
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Old 08-30-2005, 11:16 AM   #3
craig johnston
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is that rhyming slang?


like j.arthur rank?
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Old 08-30-2005, 11:23 AM   #4
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It may well be.
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Old 08-30-2005, 03:57 PM   #5
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Some people are just attracted to the repulsive and/or offensive and/or dangerous. Whether one finds something like that "sexy" is pretty subjective.

I'm of the school of thought that says as long as what other people do doesn't affect me adversely, I'm all for it. Simply seeing someone dressed up in Nazi clothing - well, it depends on the context. To glorify something that caused millions of deaths, millions of lives to be near ruined if not completely ruined - that's pretty sick. I don't think people should be allowed to do anything that would resemble celebrating such a belief system.
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Old 08-30-2005, 04:27 PM   #6
Max Headroom
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George Lucas shamelessly used nazi imagery in his starwars movies. More-so in the original three. Some of the sceens contain direct references to nazi propaganda film. (see "Triumph of will")

For futher reading and thought

Not to mention a lot of the costuming has a very nazi tone to it. That being said, no one really ever made a stink about it.

I don't see this as being a cut and dry issue... Obviously dressing up like an SS officer and parading around with a swastika on your arm is not too cool... a form fitted leather jacket and funny hat... more questionable..
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Old 08-30-2005, 05:25 PM   #7
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Too vague Craig.

I mean, dressing up as Hitler and waltzing down the Champs Elysee would be offensive to those people subjected to the imagery, it's connotations etc..

However, having your girlfriend dress up in a leather SS uniform with swatikas pierced through her nipples and having her spank and subjugate you with golden showers and making you perform analingus while she masturbates with an iron cross and she has you restrained with tough leather cuffs and a halter is perfectly acceptable as normal part of a mature yet adventurous lifestyle.
Probably.

I should imagine.
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Old 08-31-2005, 03:03 AM   #8
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That's nice.

It seems to me that asian countries are less sensitive to the whole nazi thing than the rest of us. Probably to do with their notorious lack of history teaching/revisionist history teaching.

While in Hong Kong I was surprised by the amount of shops devoted almost solely to selling nazi memorablilia. I don't know if they were real pieces or reproduction or some combination of the two. I didn't care to look too closely.
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Old 08-31-2005, 06:32 AM   #9
craig johnston
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yes max, which is one of the problems i have with star bores -
see also lord of the rings.

agreed dinzdale, but what about all the stuff in between?

and good point snake, they also have no jewish population.
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Old 08-31-2005, 09:24 AM   #10
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^^

There were approximately 13 million people killed in concentration camps in World War 2, 6 million of these were jewish.

But yes, they tend to be more vocal as the largest ethnic group singled out to be guests of the Fuehrer. And yes, asia has a tiny european population.

(Shite. Smarty would have been triply rooted if you add in "political dissident".)
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Old 08-31-2005, 09:35 AM   #11
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is fascism sexy?

no.

Quote:
What is Fascism?
By Laura Dawn Lewis


This may surprise most educated people. One of the more common government strategies today, especially in developing regions is fascism. Fascism is commonly confused with Nazism. Nazism is a political party platform that embraces a combination of a military dictatorship, socialism and fascism. It is not a government structure. Fascism is a government structure. The most notable characteristic of a fascist country is the separation and persecution or denial of equality to a specific segment of the population based upon superficial qualities or belief systems.

Simply stated, a fascist government always has one class of citizens that is considered superior (good) to another (bad) based upon race, creed or origin. It is possible to be both a republic and a fascist state. The preferred class lives in a republic while the oppressed class lives in a fascist state.

Until the Civil Rights act of 1964, many parts of the US were Republic for whites and could be considered fascist for non-Caucasian residents. Fascism promotes legal segregation in housing, national resource allocation and employment. It provides legal justification for persecuting a specific segment of the population and operates behind a two tiered legal system. These two tiers can be overt as it was within Nazi Germany where Jews, Homosexuals, Catholics, Communists, Clergy and the handicap were held to one set of rules and courts, while the rest of Germany enjoyed different laws.

Or it can be implied and held up by consensual conspiracy, (people know it is wrong but do nothing to stop it or change it. Through lack of action, they give consent), as it was in the deep South for African Americans and others of color. In Fascism, one segment of society is always considered less desirable, sub-human or second class.

...

The 7 conditions that foster & fuel fascism are:

1. Instability of capitalist relationships or markets.

2. The existence of considerable declassed social elements.

3. The stripping of rights and wealth focused upon a specific segment of the population, specifically the middle class and intellectuals within urban areas as this the group with the means, intelligence and ability to stop fascism if given the opportunity.

4. Discontent among the rural lower middle class (clerks, secretaries, white collar labor). Consistent discontent among the general middle and lower middle classes against the oppressing upper-classes (haves vs have-nots).

5. Hate: Pronounced, perpetuated and accepted public disdain of a specific group defined by race, origin, theology or association.

6. Greed: The motivator of fascism, which is generally associated with land, space or scarce resources in the possession of those being oppressed.

7. Organized Propaganda:

a) The creation of social mythology that venerates (creates saints of) one element of society while concurrently vilifying (dehumanizing) another element of the population through misinformation, misdirection and the obscuring of factual matter through removal, destruction or social humiliation, (name-calling, false accusations, belittling and threats).

b) The squelching of public debate not agreeing with the popular agenda via slander, libel, threats, theft, destruction, historical revisionism and social humiliation. Journalists in particular are terrorized if they attempt to publish stories contrary to the agenda.

...
thank you.
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Old 09-01-2005, 12:08 AM   #12
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ah, i suck at debating. i say the man is sexy in the nazi outfit, but were it just a tight military outfit i'd find it just as sexy.
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Old 09-01-2005, 06:51 AM   #13
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shame. i'd like to hear a justification for it cos i think the arguments against are pretty obvious.
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Old 09-02-2005, 04:00 AM   #14
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well, HERES MY ARGUMENT!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...o/4c628379.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...o/2d152114.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...o/993e6726.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...o/236ac49f.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...o/90f50bab.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...o/f756fc94.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...aio/kozi07.jpg
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Last edited by agentsmith : 09-02-2005 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 09-03-2005, 03:02 PM   #15
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Well, there's something for everyone, isn't there?
This kind of begs the question - what is sexy? And of course that's going to run the gamut from Dinzdale's lively scenario to what the First Lady considers foreplay.
When it comes to what's sexy, I don't think most people care if others are offended by it.
The repulsion I feel with images like that is going to be someone else's fantasy. I don't think there's any possible way to corral that sort of thing.

The farther in time we get from a horrific event, the less horror the collective unconscious retains, especially when there are images like that around to distill it. I'm grateful that Jews don't let the world forget, because once that happens, it will happen again. Genocide still happens of course, but so far, not to the Jews. Even though the Holocaust happened way before my time, because of their efforts, yes, I am deeply offended by nazi chic - and the fact that others are as well is encouraging, if only to show that the world does have a memory.
I look at these images and see an artist who has no depth or memory. But that's not what some people are looking for in sex, is it?
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