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Old 06-14-2005, 09:31 PM   #1
dinzdale
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Board Dynamics

Well, here we go again, more ranting and gnashing of teeth.

Just my humble opinion.
I think the very size and scale of the membership in this board has grown so large and cumbersome that very little of the orignal personality has remained. Very little is actually imparted in the way of information or even entertainment. I'm feel that Ze has always left to us to play and come up with new stuff, but it has become a very stale place for ideas.
I suppose I'm scribbling this after today's fracas, where once again, the loudest voices only were heard. Right or wrong, it was only the pile of irrelevance that gets heard.
I'm not a philospher, or a man of great highminded conversation, and I know we wont put the world to rights, but this is just tedious.
It seems to me (opinion alert), it seems to me that if someone has an opinion , valid or otherwise, it is never constructively dealt with.
And then there are all the judgments when everyone seems to try to be first not to judge.
Example : If an opinion was given of say "I dont like eskimos" the loud voices would defend all things innuit, and berate the opinioned person for having such a shocking rascist view, regardless of any explanation (which the opinion giver doesnt necessarliy have to give any of us). Others would just post large pictures of fatuous images.
Now, if the opinion was "I dont like republicans" because the loudest voices would be "hear, hear..well said...GWB is a such and such" and the opinion part of the general concensus of this large cumbersome gathering, barely a comment would arise.

I dont know, I'm rambling, but basically, is this place now too big and unwieldly to allow any single opinion not in line with the majority to even be heard without chastisement.

Whatever.
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Old 06-14-2005, 09:56 PM   #2
Audreyvgs
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There seems to be a gang mentality going on. Squash who you don't like, bark at em, post really classy pictures. Yell shut up.

I tried getting one person corralled, one who totally corrupted any intelligent conversation and i succeeded in getting scrubbed off the board by the gang, I realized that my attempt might have been heavy handed, and even apologized to the person in question, but to not much avail. I got attacked for posting personal things, posting pics of my kid, and sharing stuff I did for a living. The clique makes it uncomfortable for anyone they decide not to like and impossible to apologize, impossible to exist.

So, I am relegated to sniper. I shoot only if necessary and get the hell out. Dodge isnt big enough for all of us, now that its the OK Corrall.

Isn't it amazing how it morphed into the lowest common denominator?
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:05 PM   #3
dinzdale
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Question then....is it just because of the number of people here will inevitably tend to that position, or is it just because of any particular individual or sub-group of individuals?
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:30 PM   #4
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Being that there is no Creed of Civility, the Clique rules the roost.
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:36 PM   #5
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I'm not sure what "the lowest common denominator" is Aud...or if there is such a thing. Humans seem to have historically had a nearly infinite ability to be as horrid as possible to each other...and a just as infinite ability to rationalize their behavior.

Regarding the quashing of opinion, though; that seems to be perpetrated by a subset of individuals who show disregard for (for lack of a better term, I'm not a writter/wordsmith) "the golden rule". Or perhaps they do wish to be treated like laughing stocks themselves and do in fact follow the "golden rule"???

A portion of the board treats others on the board with the same respect they would if they met face to face, another portion of the board acts as though "anything goes" since this is "just a message board...get over it". I naturally feel judgemental about that since I believe myself to be in the former group, and because i'm a green as the grass hippie that believes all life, even all people deserve respect.

If a town meeting were held in real life regarding poor treatment of some member of the town, and an individual stood up and talked about dicks and drunks (possibly to distract from the discussion???...or water it down with irrelevance???)...they would be ejected from the town meeting. Here it seems to function somewhat in the reverse...those that try to adress the issue of "was someone mistreated" are barraged with irrelevant images, crys of "shut-up", and "who the **** do you think you are?". Regarding the last...we don't know...that's what we are trying to figure out. Who the **** are "those other people" The puppets and multi-characters? And are they messing with other people's heads? And is there any way to prevent it from happening. Perhaps we can't know, and quite possibly we can't prevent it...But silence about the issue just gives tacit approval of the behavior.

Wink wink nudge nudge, aren't We cool cuz WE arent the ones who got fooled.

^^^**** that.

Wink wink nudge nudge, aren't We cool cuz we aren't the N***** hanging from the tree.

^^^**** that.

A hang man came to town...but I was silent because he didn't come for me...
Till I was the only one left to hang.

Last edited by Coffee : 06-14-2005 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:46 PM   #6
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I'm having a hard time accepting it. I've been reporting all this to SmartyPants who, in his wisdom, is just ignoring it... He used to be the moderator for an AOL forum, and AOL has very very strict guidelines for participation, which were up to the moderator to enforce. His way of dealing with most everything was to let things play themselves out - although he *did* delete posts by people who were just outright threatening or otherwise inexcusably unpleasant. We don't have any such guidelines here, and I have to admit, in this situation, the only obvious thing that's going on is "off-topic" activity, however sensitive those of us who actually know what's going are to the barrage of crap.
I wish we could think of a way to monitor the board that didn't seem like censorship. I wouldn't want to impose my personal sense of propriety on what's supposed to be a public board. But I wish we could do away with unkindness.
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinzdale
Very little is actually imparted in the way of information or even entertainment. I'm feel that Ze has always left to us to play and come up with new stuff, but it has become a very stale place for ideas.
professor dinzdale with all due repect, why don't YOU and for that matter EVERYONE

1. INFORM US

2. HAVE SOME IDEAS

3. COME UP WITH NEW STUFF

4. CREATE THREADS ABOUT STUFF THAT INTERESTS YOU AND THAT MAY OR MAY NOT INTEREST OTHERS - IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER



or is that someone else's job?


love and biscuits

-=zero
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:54 PM   #8
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"If a town meeting were held in real life regarding poor treatment of some member of the town, and an individual stood up and talked about dicks and drunks (possibly to distract from the discussion???...or water it down with irrelevance???)...they would be ejected from the town meeting. Here it seems to function somewhat in the reverse..."

No kidding. Good point.

Dinz, Aud, Coff - I like you guys (and gal).
(Not meaning to lighten or retardize the sentiment of this thread. I agree with everything you guys said)
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:58 PM   #9
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D'ope! Didn't intentionally exclude anyone from my warm, fuzzy circle of admiration. I was typing up this response right after Coffee posted his post.
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Old 06-14-2005, 11:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinzdale
Well, here we go again, more ranting and gnashing of teeth.

Just my humble opinion.
I think the very size and scale of the membership in this board has grown so large and cumbersome that very little of the orignal personality has remained. Very little is actually imparted in the way of information or even entertainment. I'm feel that Ze has always left to us to play and come up with new stuff, but it has become a very stale place for ideas.
I suppose I'm scribbling this after today's fracas, where once again, the loudest voices only were heard. Right or wrong, it was only the pile of irrelevance that gets heard.
I'm not a philospher, or a man of great highminded conversation, and I know we wont put the world to rights, but this is just tedious.
It seems to me (opinion alert), it seems to me that if someone has an opinion , valid or otherwise, it is never constructively dealt with.
And then there are all the judgments when everyone seems to try to be first not to judge.
Example : If an opinion was given of say "I dont like eskimos" the loud voices would defend all things innuit, and berate the opinioned person for having such a shocking rascist view, regardless of any explanation (which the opinion giver doesnt necessarliy have to give any of us). Others would just post large pictures of fatuous images.
Now, if the opinion was "I dont like republicans" because the loudest voices would be "hear, hear..well said...GWB is a such and such" and the opinion part of the general concensus of this large cumbersome gathering, barely a comment would arise.

I dont know, I'm rambling, but basically, is this place now too big and unwieldly to allow any single opinion not in line with the majority to even be heard without chastisement.

Whatever.
how many people do you think would it take for a board where all opinions could be heard and respected?

this whole phenomenon of "shouting" is a common thing we see in group survival actually. to keep your place in a group you must either stand out, or go with the most popular opinion. it's natural group behavior as well as a survival strategy. it's instinct.

anyway, whatever happened to the boards that were inspired by this one? those had a smaller population, right? did the same things occur?
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Old 06-14-2005, 11:23 PM   #11
Willow Sylph
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^^^ oddly and thankfully, no. We all get along like peas in a pod.
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Old 06-14-2005, 11:25 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Willow Sylph
^^^ oddly and thankfully, no. We all get along like peas in a pod.
weren't those boards invitation-only?

then that's quite easy to explain!
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Old 06-15-2005, 12:04 AM   #13
trisherina
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I have been horrified by almost every regular user's behaviour (with the exception of Frieda, I think) at one time or another -- and that includes zero's, and that includes my own. When this happens, about 70% of the time I "say something" either privately or publicly. I like pretty much everyone most of the time -- but not when there's deliberate nastiness. Not then.

I know that everyone has their reasons for their hurts and grievances, and some of them go a long ways back. However, I do wish they could be put aside for the sake of creative expression. How possible this is, I don't know, but I do know that creative expression is almost impossible when people fear being mocked or sniped at with every post they make. I also know that I've been really mad at people, and been able to get over it, without even all that much effort.

As for zero, I've "known" him privately online for what? a couple of years?, and despite my being very very married, have never felt in the least bit threatened by any of our interactions. (At this point snake will interject that I'm simply not attractive, but she doesn't scare me either.) I have great big boundaries, and they're always out there like highway signs. I am not concerned that anyone is going to be able to cross them, anytime soon.

Peace.
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Old 06-15-2005, 12:21 AM   #14
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Who is going to share any true thoughts or creativity here? I did and regret it big time, I have been called a non-creative whatever, your threads are lame Venus, get a real signature Venus? Very creative and encouraging for a newcomer. I'm actually one of few on here that was posting original photographs that I had taken and sharing links to my art works and designs, those links are all gone from here today though? I make a living off what I do so I don't doubt my talent at all but I do doubt some peoples reasons for being here (as I have stated before).

*I think a clear rule for newcomers and members alike should be that this is a place to share ideas; not an online dating service or a place to bash on people you don't agree with.
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Old 06-15-2005, 03:19 PM   #15
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Geezus Gawd, dont post anything personal here. Newbie rule #1. I made that mistake. Gee, who was it that posted personal agony, and somebody made a thread all about how whiny americans are? That was the most insensitive thing I ever saw on this board.

I posted re: a question of paternity, i got called a cvnt for making fun of somebodys rape. (wtf?) I posted pics of my child, i got made fun of. I posted pics of my art, and ditto. You can't win here. It's not the place to share.

I've actually horrified myself here. I have posted crap i regret. My buttons all got pushed. I've switched to zippers and I apologized for things i did, but Venus, nobody, cept a couple people will ever let it go. Get used to it.


So to fix it, what

1. INFORM US - You make fun of it & post really classy pics

2. HAVE SOME IDEAS - You bark at me

3. COME UP WITH NEW STUFF - Yeah, M. was a brilliant idea

4. CREATE THREADS ABOUT STUFF THAT INTERESTS YOU AND THAT MAY OR MAY NOT INTEREST OTHERS - IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER - yes it does, it matters cause it interests me, so, I post it, and what, somebody blasts it to hell, or posts really lovely pictures of people who are drunk or yelling shut up.

Its their message board. Hope Ze liked it, cause it has nothing to do with him or us. Not that i speak for him. Just my opinion.
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