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Old 04-25-2004, 04:17 PM   #1
imdrsmooth
 
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A vote for the green party

Is a wasted vote if you want Bush out of office.

DEBATE!
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Old 04-25-2004, 04:39 PM   #2
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I agree! I think that "voting with a purpose" vs. "voting to protest" is important right now. Spoiled ballots and votes for joke candidates etc. are not going to get him out.
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Old 04-26-2004, 12:37 AM   #3
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I wonder if Naders goanna screw everything up again
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Old 04-26-2004, 03:55 AM   #4
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www.votenader.com/

I went to this website and told him exactly what I thought of him a few months ago. A vote for Nader is the functional equivalent of a vote for Bush, because most of the people who vote for Nader would have voted Democratic had Nader not ran.

How narcissistic can this guy possibly be????? ARGH!!!!

Last edited by Gatsby : 04-26-2004 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 04-26-2004, 09:12 AM   #5
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thats funny i thought a vote for nader was a vote for nader
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Old 04-26-2004, 10:33 AM   #6
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I believe that a third party should be allowed unfortunately our electoral systems isn't set up properly for that. If we could introduce runoff voting into the presidential election and four parties could run and none would be a spoiler. Nader is correct in most of his beliefs and I would prefer him to either canidate but the stakes are much too high this time around to allow him to pull undecideds away from the main battle.
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Old 04-26-2004, 04:01 PM   #7
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Traditional two party systems gives a good heads up on how the election will go -- particularly with registered voters (although they're allowed to change their mind in the final moments eh?) ...

When you add a third party into the mix, one that is not middle of the road in its ideologies, but leans farther over to the left, you will wind up dividing the left, and ultimately because of scattered votes, giving the right the most strength because of the consistency of those voters who tend to vote conservative.

If you had a middle of the road party ... or one farther left and one farther right for a four-party tier; you wouldn't have to contemplate what happens if two liberals are running against a conservative.

The minute you add an odd number to the voting arena, you have to consider the voting wave implications to the established standardized parties.
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Old 04-26-2004, 04:02 PM   #8
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well said!
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Old 04-26-2004, 04:55 PM   #9
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the problem is the 2 party system, i would like to see 4 or 5 viable candidates run for office,then maybe we wil see something get done in america
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Old 04-26-2004, 05:03 PM   #10
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It doesn't work in Canada that way, why would it work here?

The thing is, if you have four or five candidates running, you wind up with what is called a minority government -- where sections of congress are divvied up amongst the four or five parties -- often there is subterfuge -- one party voting down legislation against another -- until you wind up with a divided congress and nothing gets done because you can't get a large enough approbation percentage on a certain piece of legislature.

Other times you see diplomacy -- two parties working together to get legislation pushed through. But often you have a stalemate.

So no, I don't believe more parties is the answer to political woes in the US.

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Old 04-26-2004, 05:14 PM   #11
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nyc, this i just my thought, dont you think if there were 4 strong parties, that they would maybe form coalitions do get things done
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Old 04-26-2004, 05:35 PM   #12
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Yes, absolutely -- that happens sometimes.

Sometimes.

Most often, because we ARE talking politics here, is that there are hidden agendas (much like the two tier system) -- only it becomes more divided, fragmented -- to the point of becoming a stalemate on issues that are "hot" -- like abortion, like EOE, like stem cell research ... etc....

Ultimately it's the party doctrine that motivates -- that and kickback from lobbyists. In fact because of the free-for-all with pay-for-your-vote in the US congress, there is talk of how there really aren't any official political parties in the US as it stands. The legislative vote goes where the money does. And it's all legal.

I understand your pov on this issue, but having witnessed it in Canada, I can pretty much tell you it doesn't work. We've had minority governments where the top two parties are equally divided in votes and the tertiary and fourth parties are pulled like two kids fighting over a toy doll -- one with each arm. The third and fourth parties sort of act like wildcards (which can be good) -- you don't know how they're going to vote in a given week -- but ultimately it goes back to a game of -- politics.

In the case of government, I'm not sure more is the answer.
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:42 PM   #13
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Re: A vote for the green party

Quote:
Originally posted by imdrsmooth
Is a wasted vote if you want Bush out of office.

DEBATE!
Indeed it is.

I don't think after the last four years that anyone but the most diehard leftist idealists (and probably not even a lot of them) will vote for Nader or any other ticket-splitting independent.

Personally, I think Nader is foolish to tarnish his otherwise honorable place in history by insisting on forwarding his personal agenda.

It is not that I am no longer idealistic, but comes a time when we have to be realistic and understand that we have to make some sacrifices in order to be effectual and make changes. Nader is not a viable candidate, will never win, and to vote for him is to give the Bush machine just a little more oil (you'll pardon the pun).
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Old 04-28-2004, 02:12 PM   #14
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How many times has Nader run now?? Or, atleast thrown his hat in the ring.

Okay..more than Nader, what has always bothered me is how someone can win by popular vote, but lose by electoral. And I don't even want to go into the whole Fla. thing with the chads.
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Old 04-30-2004, 02:37 AM   #15
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Personaly the whole party system needs a over haul. Saying my vote counts as bush and not voting for him is just being a cry baby. my vote counts no matter who I choise.
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