ZEFRANK.COM - message board  

Go Back   ZEFRANK.COM - message board > DEBATE HALL
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 10 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 09-21-2004, 02:13 AM   #1
nycwriters
Stuck in T.O.
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Floundering
Posts: 4,134
Fat vs. Thin

I'm curious as to your opinion whether you view society's pressures to be thin and beautiful as having practical expressions in every day life?

Having been on both sides of the spectrum, I know that when I was very thin in my 20s, I routinely had drinks bought, nailed job interviews, doors opened up in departments that "weren't hiring" ... etc...

Packing a few pounds on hasn't really stopped the career climb, but it's stalled it on a few occassions.

OR it could just be that with the few extras on me I'm not as confident as I was when I was rail thin, and as a result my insecurities are creating these "stalls" or lack of doors opening, etc... ?

So in this day and age, do you think, at least professionally, you need to be thin to succeed? IS there a special favoritism or bias for thin people vs. heavier people?

Or have we, as a society, moved past this?
nycwriters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2004, 02:32 AM   #2
zenbabe
Lollypop!
 
zenbabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: we are all made of stars
Posts: 11,690
Have we moved passed it?

Are you kidding?

The numbers for anorexia, bulimia, and nip/tucks are way up.

But, I do know that alot of men I know think paris hilton type bodies are gross. Quite a few of them can't stand fake tits.

I think that being 'fat' is definatly a bag stigma, one of being lazy. I am not talking 'healthy', like with curves, not a bean poll.
__________________
Be yourself, because the people that mind don't matter, and the people that matter don't mind.

-Dr. Seuss
zenbabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2004, 03:18 AM   #3
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
With the exception of pregnancy, I have been naturally slim all my adult life, aside from a year where I had to take gobs of Prednisone to manage yet another outbreak of my immune system trying to eat me alive. I got up to 167 before I stopped looking (and went off the Prednisone about a month after that) -- a gain of about 40 pounds on a frame just shy of 5'8". It wasn't pleasant. Gaining that much weight in such a short period of time makes it impossible to adjust to your new frame adequately, and I recall that I was always bumping into things b/c I kept misjudging my, ah, girth in relation to the objects around me.

I also remember that I hated the feeling of my gut squishing when I would bend over to tie a shoe, and I sweated a LOT more.

I also remember feeling acutely conscious of how salespeople treated me when I went into clothing shops to oufit my new larger self. I will definitely vouch for the fact that salespeople in ordinary shops treat you differently when you're slim vs. when you're big.

Men who had previously made flirtatious comments in my direction seemed to suddenly think it was some sort of charity to pay me a compliment. I remember one specifically saying as much.

I was fortunate in that over a year sans steroids, the weight shed itself with no discernible effort from me (my exercise is pretty much limited to bringing my right hand to my mouth at the best of times). I had believed that this might not happen, though, and gave away quite a few of my "thin" clothes in an effort to show solidarity with my new self. I wish I had kept that Liz Claiborne silk dress, dammit.
__________________
Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard
trisherina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2004, 11:27 AM   #4
Aphrodite
Myth Demeanour
 
Aphrodite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: My tent
Posts: 3,041
I grew up in a family with major weight issues. We were taught to clean our plates and make Grama happy. If you had 'seconds' you were complimenting the cook.

I have been heavy and thin myself. Thin means that people go out of their way to offer you assistance and smile friendly or flirty smiles. Heavy means that you have to flag down help and smiles become less common and less intimate.

I have run into people I met while I was heavy who hadn't given me the time of day, and met them again while thin and they were effusive in their kindness and desire to make me smile.

I work with this everyday and everyone notices the difference. My sister had a gastric bypass and became terribly ill. She made it down to her goal weight and held it for about 6 months. She now weighs what she weighed before.

We are a society that encourages eating too much of the wrong foods and shuns those who do. A fat person on a bike is ridiculed, a fat person eating at a restaurant is worthy of a comment, and a fat person on a diet is often offered the wrong foods by people who think it is funny.

Obesity is a disease and I get very angry at people who judge the worth or abilities of a person based on their weight. There is a person below the layers of fat, a person with a regular life and the added burden of emotional and physiological need to eat as a way of feeding something more intense.

Weight loss is a confidence builder in those who were previously overweight. They do feel better about themselves and it does reflect in their way of dealing with the world. The world does treat them better as they lose weight. In my experience, (I teach weight management) I've seen that it is at about 30 or more pounds overweight, where the doors begin to remain closed, people begin to treat you as less capable or they think you have no self control or that you pay less attention to details. this does spill over into how your employers think of you as well.

It isn't fair. It should change, but as long as we keep increasing the size of the plates at the restaurants, and making it so convenient to eat the crap foods out there, we will not see a change. Unless we can change peoples perception that anorexia and bulimia are diseases, and obesity is nothing more than a lazy form of over indulgence, we will not see a change. Unless we treat the reason behind the lack of self fulfillment, we will not see a change. It is a disease.

Sorry, I am very passionate about this subject.
__________________
Monkey on the Halfshell
Aphrodite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2004, 02:51 PM   #5
Willow Sylph
monkey
 
Willow Sylph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,608
Well said, Aphrodite.
Having been on both ends of the thin/overweight spectrum, I've dealt with everything all you gals who already commented have been through, too. It's appauling how unworthy of kindness, politeness, respect, and affection you become in other people's eyes when you're overweight.
What I'm really irritated by is the hypocrisy of some men about women's weight. One time a friend and I were just out walking and this group of four FAT men moo'ed at us. They were bigger than we were, yet they were calling us cows! some men seem to be so dillusional when it comes to their own girth. They can look like they're 9 months pregnant with twins, but think they look good and are in great shape, yet if a woman is ten pounds overweight, she's a pig. It's really disheartening and disgusting.
__________________
Knight 1: We are now no longer the Knights who say "Ni".
Knight 2: NI!
Other Knights: Shh....
Knight 1: We are now the Knights who say.... "Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-PTANG! Zoom-Boing! Z'nourrwringmm!"
Willow Sylph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2004, 06:00 PM   #6
zenbabe
Lollypop!
 
zenbabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: we are all made of stars
Posts: 11,690
Back in my Hollywood dayz, a friend suggested that I should do some catalouge modeling for some extra cash. I was super thin back then for my frame, coming in at 125 pounds (5'7) I was borderline anorexic..but hey, that's is what america wants to see right?

So I get to dudes office, and you know what he tells me? He says "if you can lose 30 pounds, I MIGHT be able to get you some work'

95 pounds!!! me??? WTF!!!!!

So that was an end to me being a model in a sears catalouge....

I can also tell you that I need to lose 20 pounds, being in arizona really did a number on me...not only do I feel negative about my self image, I feel like ass. Especially now that I am out looking for a job again...
__________________
Be yourself, because the people that mind don't matter, and the people that matter don't mind.

-Dr. Seuss
zenbabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2004, 04:11 AM   #7
topcat
monkey
 
topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: across the st. from the telephone pole
Posts: 1,970
right now i am at 212 pounds. i am about 6'1". and i am not happy with my weight. i have been dieting all summer, so far i lost about 25 pounds. i used to look at fat people i guess like what most people described here. i no longer do and haven't in a while. i know woman who are over weight but when you see them you dont see the weight but you see a beautiful woman, it is the way they present themselves and also what comes from the inside. more later
topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2004, 04:46 AM   #8
priceyfatprude
girthy pickles
 
priceyfatprude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: under your desk
Posts: 9,313
I love you, Aphrodite. But you knew that.
priceyfatprude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2004, 10:21 AM   #9
Aphrodite
Myth Demeanour
 
Aphrodite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: My tent
Posts: 3,041
Thanks PFP.
__________________
Monkey on the Halfshell
Aphrodite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004, 02:28 PM   #10
Saxifrage
monkey
 
Saxifrage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Angband
Posts: 411
When I was 18 I weighed 330 pounds. I am 6'2" so you could say i was fat. I was a very depressed teenager and food was my comfort. Between 18 and 19 I dropped down to 215 and was in great shape. Mountain biking, hiking, things I love to do and had a good result on my physique. I am now 30 and weigh 235, a little heavy as far as I am concerned but I am tall and well muscled so it doesn't show. My family is obese, it seems genetic. My little sisters are butterballs and my stepmother is very large, around 300 at 5'2". I feel very badly for them, I never show any outward disdain for their size but In my mind I know how horribly I felt when I was that way and I rack my brain for a way to help them that won't offend them. Everyone should be accepted for how they would like to be but it is much better to be HEALTHY, I won't say thin because you do not have to have a washboard to be fit. The popular idea that you must be emaciated is a disgustingly extreme reaction to obesity and is not the way to go.
__________________
The Dude abides.
Saxifrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004, 11:41 AM   #11
Avalon
Moderator
 
Avalon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: A much better place
Posts: 5,931
Quote:
Originally posted by topcat
right now i am at 212 pounds. i am about 6'1". and i am not happy with my weight. i have been dieting all summer, so far i lost about 25 pounds. i used to look at fat people i guess like what most people described here. i no longer do and haven't in a while. i know woman who are over weight but when you see them you dont see the weight but you see a beautiful woman, it is the way they present themselves and also what comes from the inside. more later
Has anyone told you that you are a truly nice man with a good heart? I see it in your posts all the time and have been lax in expressing my opinion. But that doesn't mean it has gone un noticed.


And Sax...ditto

It is nice to see general respect and understanding for people. You two rock as far as I am concerned. There..done embarrassing ya.
__________________
I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it.
Groucho Marx
Avalon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004, 02:05 PM   #12
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
RatMan's a big dude. He and his brother inherited some megamesomorph gene from the Mennonites and have enormous (17 1/2 inch) necks and shoulders. The brother displays his big guns to advantage with a number of Harley tattoos, but RatMan has never wanted to invite body ink into his life. I have known him for 15 years and never thought he looked disproportionate or unattractive. The sizes of his clothing freak him out, though -- he has some notions that a man should conform to certain sizes, I know that sounds insane but he does -- and he'll wear the same stuff 'til it literally falls apart to avoid buying clothes. Thank God GE has no dress code in its software division. Anyway, you can see what he actually looks like in the attachment. I have started buying his clothes from time to time, and while I think he still figures it's something he should be able to do himself, he usually does seem to appreciate when I show up with something and throw it on the bed.

It's been a strange thing for me because I associate body image issues so strongly with females. And I think, much like most people do, that anyone I find attractive should feel the same way about themselves, completely without question.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg family.jpg (51.1 KB, 253 views)
__________________
Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard
trisherina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004, 02:54 PM   #13
Avalon
Moderator
 
Avalon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: A much better place
Posts: 5,931
That's a great picture of a great looking family.

ps..Ratman looks just fine to me; keep buying his clothes; it will make you both happier. My husband in forbidden to buy his own clothes. I found by doing this, he actually went out and bought clothes. That man is just tooo easy.
__________________
I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it.
Groucho Marx
Avalon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2004, 06:06 AM   #14
Gatsby
I used to be a girl
 
Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,152
I, too, have been on both sides of the scale (no pun intended).

When I was 16 my dad died, and we all lost weight (my mom, sister, and I). I was 5'3" and 105lbs - not underweight, but thin by midwestern standards.

When I went to college, I gained the expected amount - 15lbs total by senior year.

Law school has put on another 15lbs.

Have I seen the effect? MY GOD, how it has changed how people interact with me. And by most standards, my weight gain has been minimal - I'm still 5'3" and 135lbs. Not overweight by "government" standards. But people edge their way around "skinny" talk when I'm in their presence, and they're uncomfortable discussing their eating/exercise habits. I feel awkward wearing the requisite skirt/jacket suit to interviews because of the 95lb weaklings I compete with.

Part of this stems from the fact that my mother and sister are inherently very thin people.

And it's all entirely unjustified, and I can say this without reservation: I am absolutely in better health than I was when I was thinner. I exercise more, I smoke less, I eat better. I can run father, jump higher, and work longer than when I was thinner. My diet is well rounded and based in fruits and veggies, as opposed to my high school Taco-Bell and chicken-fried-rice diet. If I were to run a marathon against my former self, my current self would win, hands-down.

But no one seems to see this when they're looking at me as a potential employee or date, as opposed to the previous person who was a few pounds thinner.

In our society, thin wins.

You know, I think that the source of all of this is that people are attracted to those who are unique. In past societies, plump was chic because few people had the ways and means to become more filled out - it meant you lead a life of leisure, something reserved to the rich and elite, those few who could afford to spend money on luxuries like food and leisure activities, and who were not forced to work their hands to the bone in order to survive. Those who lived, almost literally, off the "fat of the land," were highly regarded and desirable. Desirable because they were the overweight minority.

Today, the opposite is true - the THIN are revered as the unique, because being plump means laziness and sloth. The thin are the modern underweight minority.

I think society seeks out those who are on the fringe, and the ideal we seek to achieve is perpetually that which is out of reach. I think this will never change.

Thin or full, whichever there are less of are those which will be desired.

Last edited by Gatsby : 09-29-2004 at 06:09 AM.
Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2004, 12:33 PM   #15
joppa.gal
monkey
 
joppa.gal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 615
I have also been plump/thin.

I'm 5'3 and have always weighed around 115, but was for a few years on Depakote for bipolar- each pill put on 20 pounds, and I was taking three a night.

I was at my heaviest 175 pounds. My belly would sit on my legs when I sat down. I felt so awful about myself.


Quote:
I have run into people I met while I was heavy who hadn't given me the time of day, and met them again while thin and they were effusive in their kindness and desire to make me smile.
I totally can second that comment.

It seems to be off-subject, but what I love so much about the nine naked men is that they are all ordinary men and not glistening with oil and rippled with muscle like you would see on television or movies. I love those nine naked men becuae they are so proud to be pudgy!
joppa.gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 11:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.