ZEFRANK.COM - message board  

Go Back   ZEFRANK.COM - message board > CURRENT EVENTS
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 20 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 05-09-2005, 05:57 PM   #1
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
Lightbulb Burger Tax!

Only in Detroit....
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 06:01 PM   #2
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
Quote:
A member of the New York state congress has argued for a 1% tax on junk-food and TV commercials to finance an anti-obesity drive.
And they laughed when I told them this was next.
__________________
Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard
trisherina is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 06:05 PM   #3
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
i get the feeling it's going to be like smoking soon.
which may not be such a bad thing.
it's amazing how much films can change consciousness these days.
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 06:07 PM   #4
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
Yes, yes, I can hardly wait until municipal, provincial, and federal governments have some sort of input into every single aspect of my life. They don't manage me nearly well enough. Why, just the other day I did something voluntarily!
__________________
Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard
trisherina is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 06:12 PM   #5
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
what about the brain washing psychological tactics of the big corporations?
they are telling us what we need and how we can feel happy.
just as bad i think.
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 06:24 PM   #6
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
My brain resists washing much more readily than my distaste for incarceration resists taxation.
__________________
Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard
trisherina is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 06:35 PM   #7
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
but you're not gonna go to jail for not paying the extra 2 cents
on a burger are you? you either pay it, or don't buy the burger.
taxation has been used since time immemorial to control the way
that societies consume and behave and this is just the latest step.
i'm all for hiking up taxes on cigarettes. i was when i smoked and i
still am. make it expensive. put people off it, and if they still smoke,
well, at least you've gt some money to pay for the hospitals.
same deal with fast food.
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 06:49 PM   #8
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig johnston
taxation has been used since time immemorial to control the way
that societies consume and behave and this is just the latest step.
i'm all for hiking up taxes on cigarettes. i was when i smoked and i
still am. make it expensive. put people off it, and if they still smoke,
well, at least you've gt some money to pay for the hospitals.
same deal with fast food.
Making it expensive doesn't put people off stuff. Neither does education about the dangers. Sheer social pressure works pretty well, but it tends to evolve on its own, in its own time. If you feel comfortable singling out certain people via government policy and squeezing them because they happen to engage in certain behaviours, then that's up to you. I look forward to the exorbitant ski tax to offset the cost of accidents, because heaven forbid I take a risk without penalty. Yes, this is just the latest step. And it's reprehensible.
__________________
Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard
trisherina is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 07:16 PM   #9
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by trisherina
If you feel comfortable singling out certain people via government policy and squeezing them because they happen to engage in certain behaviours, then that's up to you.
that happens all the time. that's what governments do. if it means
the government locking up child molesters then we're all for it, if it
means them taxing motorists then half of us are against it, if it means
criminalising dope smokers then a proportion are for it and so on.
i think that making it expensive does put people off stuff and it lessens
the chance of them starting.
i would tax skiing as it has a detrimental effect on the environment, but
that's another issue. what we've got here is a very typical difference of
opinion between the north american worldview and the european worldview.
as a european i'm more inclined to accept taxation and to expect my
government to take an active role in shaping the society i live in. i find it a
good thing and am prepared to give up some freedom in order to have the
benefit of a society with a social support network, employees rights,
affordable healthcare and so on. in my experience, people from north america
have a different view and want their government to leave them alone to
struggle and cope with life as best they can, to be as free as possible.
thus, for you, this proposal is an infringement of civil liberties, while for me it
is about guiding people towards better behaviour that will benefit everyone in
the long run (although in this case it just seems to be a rather desperate
attempt by a bankrupt city to gain extra revenue).
i do think that the brainwashing techniques used by advertisers are far more
potent than you probably give them credit for. i have noticed otherwise
intelligent people on this very site drooling over cars and other consumer
goods. in the end though, we will probably never agree as these two world
views are so entrenched in our cultures.
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 09:12 PM   #10
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
Let me see... only the dim-witted are interested in "consumer goods?" Interesting point of view. Chat back about it when you get your turn at the computer in your local public library, will you?

I think it has less to do with where you live than who you are. Canadians as a whole are very keen on government nannyism. Some people are just more defensive of freedom as an ideal as opposed to just playing it safe at every possible turn. Didn't you just mention something along those lines today? Every man dies, it's just a matter of when and how? Every man dies, but not every man lives?

I believe that there is a place for government, but that place is narrow and small, and best left to things that are very difficult for individuals to accomplish. I don't, and will never believe, that its place is to "guide" individuals in making choices about how to live their lives. (shudder) Period.
__________________
Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard
trisherina is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 09:29 PM   #11
Frieda
in limbo
 
Frieda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 19,503
don't go european on me, mr johnston! burger tax is ridiculous.

i think the key role is in education. there's a max of 1500 kcal for an average female a day, and 2000 for an average male. eat more than that, get fat (not the people with diseases or a genetic history of obesity of course).

a mcD big mac meal with fries and a coke is about 1100 kcal. it's in folders and leaflets everywhere in the fast food places. if you eat more, you are obviously at risk. it's basic knowledge. taxes don't make the food less greasy.
__________________
zoek waar je wil, maar het zit in jezelf

oh yeah
Frieda is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 10:19 PM   #12
craig johnston
dalai clique
 
craig johnston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tea leaf towers - home of fine musical entertainment
Posts: 5,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by trisherina
Let me see... only the dim-witted are interested in "consumer goods?" Interesting point of view. Chat back about it when you
get your turn at the computer in your local public library, will you?.
ok sorry, i worded that badly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trisherina
I believe that there is a place for government, but that place is narrow and small, and best left to things that are very difficult for individuals to accomplish. I don't, and will never believe, that its place is to "guide" individuals in making choices about how to live their lives. (shudder) Period.
but that's what governments do, as in my examples. it plays a role in your
healthcare, education and makes the laws we all live under. how is that all
not guiding how we live our lives?
why is a burger tax any more ridiculous than tobacco or alcohol taxes?
__________________
the tea leaf family
craig johnston is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 10:38 PM   #13
Frieda
in limbo
 
Frieda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 19,503
because everyone still buys burgers, taxes or not, because they don't understand why. if they doubled the price of hamburgers, then people might start thinking.
__________________
zoek waar je wil, maar het zit in jezelf

oh yeah
Frieda is offline  
Old 05-09-2005, 11:06 PM   #14
Hyakujo's Fox
left hanging
 
Hyakujo's Fox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: between the click of the light and the start of the dream
Posts: 10,071
Quote:
The Mayor has not yet defined what constitutes a fast-food restaurant although his spokesman said it was likely to include any outlet where people pay for their food in advance.
This doesn't really create an environment where people are encouraged to serve or buy healthier foods, since it penalises any takeaway food, be it from a salad bar or from greasy joes. And in this society, takeaway food is not going to go away. Just a revenue raiser IMO, a politician hoping to slide one through under an "it's bad, so how can we tax it" reaction.

But I'm not really adverse to the government promoting healthy eating. I don't see that that is an any more disturbing attempt to influence my behaviour than my being subjected to the countless ads for junk food.
Hyakujo's Fox is offline  
Old 05-10-2005, 12:01 AM   #15
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
If the owner of Burger Joe's wants to spend part of his profits inundating the airwaves with ads about how good the Juicy Lucy burger is, that's his business. When the government takes my tax dollars and uses them (with gross inefficiency, invariably, but that's a whole other issue) to disseminate good food / bad food propaganda, that's my business. I spend at least as much time telling my kid what's erroneous in the school health curriculum as I do cautioning her about lies in advertising -- the difference being that I have no choice about paying for one form of BS. Healthy eating is not rocket science; it is pretty easily summed up by describing moderation and variety. This is not a message that should cost anyone a whack of cash to promote.

Also, "sin taxes" are nothing more than a convenient way to get money out of people through a scurrilous combination of guilt and poor-bashing. Sin taxes go into general revenue where they are spent on whatever the people in power feel might be voteworthy: they don't go into a special fund earmarked for the consequences of each excess. And it's not the ridiculously wealthy who eat crap and smoke. It's the low income earners. I see nothing particularly noble about this.
__________________
Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard
trisherina is offline  
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 04:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.