Obama declared white man.

[michaelG]

Question my caucasian friends:

Do any of you ask yourselves where the hell Obama came from ?

Did he just wake up one day and say I wanna be dah president or is he a puppet for someone ?

Change ? Yeah right.

[Tunesmith]

If you want to criticize someone's ideology, then feel free to. That's the whole point of political debate, and without it, things will inevitably become stagnant.

But if you want to insult someone based on their race, how is that any different from racism? It seems to me like there is none.

[skip intro]

what are his policies? i went to his website to find out, and there was no mention of them at all.

isn't it kind of strange how much money he's being given? could it be coming from anti-hillary reps, who want a democratic candidate they can beat easily?

[Stephi_B]

Originally Posted by skip intro

could it be coming from anti-hillary reps, who want a democratic candidate they can beat easily?

But maybe the Republicans would fear a candidate like Obama more, just because he has no Washington D.C. history? Don't see why he should be a puppet of the other side

(Dunno, the way you do elections / election campaigns confuses me anyway, the astronomic fundraising the candidates have to do, this delegates thingie, ultra-personal attacks, ... - but then again, we here were without a government for a while after the last elections cos the outcome confused the parties )

Obama has some policies, imo, and not all too bad, see here for example: http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

[brightpearl]

I brought brownies.

Don't get all excited though -- that's just mint.

[Brynn]

Obama's getting all his money from small donors. Clinton's getting it from big donors, who are all pretty much tapped out now. She's theoretically in trouble because Obama's base of financial support from the internet is much wider than hers.

However, thanks to her earlier machinations as a senator and party leader before she even announced her candidacy, the 900-odd, unelected but oh-so-mysterious "super-delegates" will make sure that she will get the nomination regardless of how many popular votes Obama gets. Now that's what I call planning ahead! On one hand it sucks for our illusions of democracy here, but on the other, I can't help but think of her as a smarter, more vicious and better-positioned political animal to take on the Republicans.

At least, that's what I believe in my most cynical moments.
All that being said, I'm really just voting for Hillary because I'm sexist. I'm sick and tired of men running things. She's clear about what she wants to do, I agree with it, and frankly, I don't care if large sections of the country aren't united behind her.

Obama became an instant star at the 2004 Democratic Convention with his keynote speech that electrified depressed Dem's all over the country. Why, the first five minutes, practically, are devoted to where he came from, remember?


All well and good, but guys like that tend to get assassinated in this country, and Michelle would be pissed. Let him get a few more years under his belt.

[michaelG]

Originally Posted by skip intro

what are his policies? i went to his website to find out, and there was no mention of them at all.

isn't it kind of strange how much money he's being given? could it be coming from anti-hillary reps, who want a democratic candidate they can beat easily?

It most definitely could be. Hell, if the Democratic old school peeps don't like Hillary. I , However, respect her for her smarts and her pragmatism.

Obama is nothing but a dream weaver-- I can't even listen to his hope and unity bs.

If obama wins the primary McCalin is a shoe in.

[Brynn]

An argument could be made for the same reason not to elect Clinton, though
(government insider, business as usual, voted for the war twice, too divisive, etc.).

Clinton needs Obama on her ticket (or vice versa) to make it a deadly combo. Problem is, the kids keep squabbling amongst themselves. For two smart people, they can be awfully short-sighted. And I could just smack Bill, btw. Could somebody please put a muzzle on the man?

Originally Posted by michaelG

But why is there no equalivalent to the hippie, or the Black Panthers, why have those of us that hate the man so ****ing wimpie. Why are there no protests, blood in the streets ?

And what is the new marijuana ?

That's easy - everybody's busy watching American Idol and Survivor.
And the new marijuana is still marijuana, but with superior potency and cultivation.
As opined by sages far wiser than I:
"People will mobilize when all their neighbors start coming home in body bags."

[Stephi_B]

Originally Posted by Brynn

That's easy - everybody's busy watching American Idol and Survivor.

Aye, that's one part of why there is no movement against things that go wrong like it was in the 60s/70s, but I think there's more to it (had an interesting discussion with my dad about that issue the other day, though not with respect to Iraq, but to globalisation and social injustice - being his red cloth):
On the one hand both a privatisation and splintering up (political) opinion, also triggered a lot by the internet (but also the diverse other medias of today) - Web 2.0 and that, everybody has got his/her own forum to present or share with others what they think, but it's hard to really focus many people on something particular, or bring them to gather en masse on the streets. It's a bit irritating cos one could think that with internet one could reach out to more people (that's the part that irritated me at least when my dad came up with this).
And then there's still the thing if one really gathered sort of a movement to get people away from their compie and/or out of the "I couldn't change a thing anyway" mode.

But I think, going back to the Iraq and Mid East conflicts, there is a kind of protest movement (though I am not sure about how that could make things better, at least not for the countries stricken in war): There's lots of young folks converting to Islam to make a stance, a private one (not talking of the small minority that goes to Qaida training camps, that's just like a small minority of leftist folks in the 60s/70s went into the militant underground), see above. Of course there are also folks who convert out of pure spiritual motifs (a friend and colleague of mine and his wife & children for example), but who might have been brought upon this particular religion through the public discussion (that is hysteria in places) and who also might have/develop a certain viewpoint on foreign politics. There is/was also a bit of a anti-war movement in the left scene, but somehow the left scene seems splintered (am talking now about Germany/Europe, dunno how that is over there in North America - would be interesting to learn more about that), see above, and those more militant ones that might create this "blood on the streets" scenario Mr G evoked, are going more and more apolitical (the anti-state, anti-police stance seeming more of a ritual, not so much an attitude) or focused on more local issues (like squatters' housing projects endangered by eviction).

Ah, and then there's still the Marmorkuchen for Perla & Anna

[auntie aubrey]

Originally Posted by Tunesmith

If you want to criticize someone's ideology, then feel free to. That's the whole point of political debate, and without it, things will inevitably become stagnant.

But if you want to insult someone based on their race, how is that any different from racism? It seems to me like there is none.

i wonder if michaelG realizes he was outclassed by a 16 year old.

tunesmith, you're a gem.

[michaelG]

Originally Posted by auntie aubrey

i wonder if michaelG realizes he was outclassed by a 16 year old.

tunesmith, you're a gem.

The 16 year old made a trite silly statement to which a response was unnecessary. And it should go without saying that she could not have been referencing me since the color of my skin precludes me from being racist--although it is possible she is unaware of that part of US history.

"But if you want to insult someone based on their race, how is that any different from racism? It seems to me like there is none." >>> This is comparable to saying, "If you want to describe something as hot, how is that different than talking about its temperature" --hardly profound.

I did not come in here to get involved in personal attacks. I would ask that people please refrain from doing so .

[Avalon]

Originally Posted by michaelG

The 16 year old made a trite silly statement to which a response was unnecessary. And it should go without saying that she could not have been referencing me since the color of my skin precludes me from being racist--although it is possible she is unaware of that part of US history.

"But if you want to insult someone based on their race, how is that any different from racism? It seems to me like there is none." >>> This is comparable to saying, "If you want to describe something as hot, how is that different than talking about its temperature" --hardly profound.

I did not come in here to get involved in personal attacks. I would ask that people please refrain from doing so .

1) Who is the she in this senario?
2) You are saying that if you are black, you can not be racist? What part of history precludes you? Google thinks you are capable.
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...=black+racists
3) Tunes, you are a class act. Nice to see you again.

[michaelG]

[quote=Avalon;376013]1) Who is the she in this senario?


"she" was the 16 year old--If it is a he, please substitute the pronoun he for the antecendent "the sixteen year-old"

[Tunesmith]

Originally Posted by michaelG

The 16 year old made a trite silly statement to which a response was unnecessary. And it should go without saying that she could not have been referencing me since the color of my skin precludes me from being racist--although it is possible she is unaware of that part of US history.

In fact, I was asking you directly! I wasn't expecting a response, seeing as most of your posts are sporadic and pointed, but thanks for honoring my question.

I'm very aware of the fact that unfortunately racism and slavery are integral parts of U.S. history, but I don't think that's what you're referring to. If you meant that being black prevents you from being racist, does that by simply being born into a group, you can't hate it? You might want to check out this famous psychology test to see if you're right.

Originally Posted by michaelg

"But if you want to insult someone based on their race, how is that any different from racism? It seems to me like there is none." >>> This is comparable to saying, "If you want to describe something as hot, how is that different than talking about its temperature" --hardly profound.

Merriam-Webster defines racism as "racial prejudice or discrimination". If insulting someone based on their race isn't an early stage of prejudice, I'm not sure what is.

For the record, your comparison is a good example of ambiguity, but semantics has almost nothing to do with racism as a practice.

Originally Posted by michaelg

I did not come in here to get involved in personal attacks. I would ask that people please refrain from doing so .

I hope you haven't interpreted anything I'm saying as a personal attack. I may disagree with you, but I won't insult you.

[auntie aubrey]

Originally Posted by michaelG

the color of my skin precludes me from being racist

don't be stupid.