very bad stuff - ZEFRANK.COM

sparticle · 06-13-2004, 01:46 PM

Yesterday was a very bad day. I threw my son out of the house. He has been refusing to look for work, and Friday he took $20.00 from my purse. Again. This has been going on for months. I have had it, and i blew up. He's been out of school (HS) for a year (he's 19) and refused to look for anything more serious than an occasional temporary job. I wouldn't care except that he has had a nasty attitude (telling us to "shut the fvck up" is common practice), helps himself to everything around here as if it belonged to him, and stolen money (significant amounts) from all of us. His latest thing is that since he can't pass a urine test, he is being "discriminated" against and shouldn't even bother to look for work. We have offered him every kind of help, including giving him a car with paid insurance, which he used for a party vehicle until we took it back.

Now my husband is angry with me because he thinks I "failed" my son, that I am "weak", and that if it weren't for my temper we could still be "helping" him. We are not speaking. We are both sad, angry and disappointed.

My son, meanwhile, went to stay with some friends. I feel terrible about throwing him out, but it was either that or call the police and have them take him for stealing (again). Maybe that's what I should have done; I don't know. Last time he ripped off my husband for 80 bucks out of his wallet. My husband is upset with me and says the kid might never come back. I am torn between crying and being heartbroken and thinking "Good! I should be so lucky as never to have to deal with this crap again!"

I realize this is stuff that belongs in a family counselor's office and not on a message board but it is Sunday morning, there are no counselors' offices open, and this beats drinking a 12-pack and telling everyone to fvck off (but not by much).

Thank you for listening.

AllegroNg · 06-13-2004, 01:55 PM

I know I'm not a parent, but I say you did do the right thing. This *is* helping him, no matter how hard it hurts you.

topcat · 06-13-2004, 02:02 PM

i feel for you sparticle, i think you did the right thing. i also think your husband should be backing you.and you cant blame yourself for your sons actions you can only do your best and hope for the best.i know it hard for you but dont blame yourself.

trisherina · 06-13-2004, 02:16 PM

Remember that doing the right thing is often the hardest; it would be so much easier to always give kids what they want. Your son is lucky to have you as an example when it comes to going from doing what's wrong for you to doing what's right for you, and by that I mean staying away from the twelve pack even when it's tough. What a rotten weekend, indeed.

masterofNone · 06-13-2004, 02:19 PM

i did the same thing with my son four years ago. he thanks me for it all the time. now he's got a reasonably good job, a nice apartment & car, a fiancee that's a sweetheart, and he's starting to line up going back to college. you did okay. it's important to keep talking, but more important to be firm and not tolerate stupidity on his part.

Avalon · 06-13-2004, 02:27 PM

Spart,
you did the right thing; there is a huge difference between helping someone and ENABLING them. Your husband has got to learn the difference. As the old saying goes: you can't help someone who will not help themselves.

I know about this first hand and I know it is painful. Hsb. is making it worse by not being supportive. I think he thinks he, not you, has failed your son, not you. And guilt makes it alot easier to be angry.

Read your pms.

deb

nycwriters · 06-13-2004, 04:06 PM

As a person who's struggled with your own personal addictions, you know that this was the right thing to do. I'm sorry you had to do it, I can only imagine how much it broke your heart.

Sometimes you don't appreciate what you have until you lose it. And after it's lost, regaining it again is the bottom some of us need to feel firmly thumping us on our asses to make us smarten up and make a change that's needed.

I'm here if you need me. I went through the same thing with D. I understand the heartache.

Aphrodite · 06-13-2004, 06:40 PM

Hey Spart.

Sunday afternoon and I understand the need to purge.

You did do the best thing you could. You have raised him. He is basically a decent guy I am sure. He just hasn't had to earn anything for survival yet. This is the kick in the pants he needed.

He will learn that he needs to earn everything. You earn respect. You earn income. You earn what you need to survive on, and hopefully a little extra for some fun things. Our kids have all learned how to enjoy the fun in life but not the earning aspect. He will learn to be polite like you taught him, or he won't get much. He will learn to work for what he has been taking for granted. This is a hard part for you, and him, but he will grow up for it. Just stand your ground and be too damn stubborn to let any man or bottle beat you.

sparticle · 06-13-2004, 10:04 PM

You guys are the best. I really appreciate it.

It was a tough day. I went for a five mile walk through the Cleveland Metroparks along the Canal Trails (for those of you on Monkey Mail, I will be sending postcards -- it is 2.5 miles to the Nature Center Gift Shop and 2.5 miles back. If you couldn't shop, I wouldn't go. Just kidding. I think.).

When I got back and showered up and did some more thinking, my husband reappeared from working on the third floor and reached out wordlessly for a hug.

He still feels bad and thinks we should have gone through the "proper channels" (housing court, eviction, possibly filing a police report, etc.), which would have taken at least three weeks to get resolved -- three more weeks of this.

I just told him, "J., when you are dealing with an unruly tenant, that's exactly the right course of action. And maybe in your eyes, it's still the right course of action -- discipline without anger and tons of warning. But I am human. I have my own issues with addiction and consequences. Perhaps I don't have your strength. But believe me when I say that I didn't act vindictively. I had simply had more than I could continue to take. Everyone's breaking point is different. If he continues to do what he is doing, he is going to find out in short order that the world has an even lower tolerance level than mine. He needs to learn. It's time. We're not throwing an infant into a snowbank here. He needs to understand choices and consequences."

He accepts this, and although we have agreed to disagree in some ways, J. respects my views. (Not to make it a joking matter, but I think when J. went to get a clean pair of underwear this morning and actually had one that had not been swiped, his own view may have softened a bit toward me. LOL)

Thanks, all of you, for your support, particularly those of you who have been there, and thanks for letting me know that it's not a hopeless case. MoN, I am particularly heartened by your story -- it helps me to know that there's another parent who has come through this and that things did work out.

You guys are the best. Thanks for being there for me. I'm still sober, and I'm still crazy, with continuing periods of craziness and sobriety expected to continue throughout tonight.

XO

sparticle · 06-13-2004, 10:23 PM

Also, as I was saying in a PM, it did occur to me this morning that you can go to jail for choking someone without ever taking a drink, and that slowed my wrath down considerably, since I am not about to get thrown into the goddam bullpen ever again for anything I didn't have a ball doing. The Tank is no place you'd want to be cold sober. LOL

Or, my version of the Serenity Prayer: "Ahhhh, throw a bucket of fvckit on it." Perhaps I'll do it up in cross-stitch. LOL

xerocs · 06-13-2004, 10:25 PM

Spart,

Where do I begin? I am 27 years old. I have been in my career field for nine years now. No drugs. Not usually late for teh job I can't stand. Just got my Associates Degree. Three payments away from actually owning my car... even if it is a Kia it is mine, almost. Divorced. Ex-wife calls every now and then and asks me to sign away the rights to my daughter. Doing the best I can to be a good Dad... failing miserabley but still trying. So... what am I getting at?

I was exactly like your son 9 years ago.

My Mom went through the same turmoil with me.

I look back now and wish that it hadn't been that way. I do however pride myself in the fact that everytime I call my Mom she says that I have made her proud. I live for that phone call.... That tiny affirmation that I have made her happy and shown her that her efforts were not wasted.

If I may make a suggestion.... I know that it is not for everyone and it definately is not the answer to all things, but... have you looked into the services for him?

If you want you can give me a call and bend my ear anytime.... and that goes for anyone on this board. You monkeys gave me a shoulder to lean on in my time of need and I would do anything to give that back.

masterofNone · 06-13-2004, 10:33 PM

okay, now let ,me brace you for the downside a bit. cuz, i think you know it's going to be a rough patch. it was the hardest thing i'd ever done. after i evicted the boy, he "moved" to maryland and stayed with friends. i found out later that he'd spent three months in the spring essentially living out of his car. he hooked up with a bunch of kids who were all current or former heroin addicts and began an 18 month relationship with a girl who was marginally pschizophrenic. he had a few really rough months during which we stopped talking completely. essentially he hit bottom. then things started to turn upward, as they do when you've got no further to fall. he got a job working in a home for developmentally diasabled young adults. the home gave him a room and a pretty good salary. it took a year before we were on anything like a good relationship again. bit by bit he added to his life. sometimes the addition was through subtraction. he found a more stable group of friends. he pulled himself into his better life. and, y'know, as he did better i offered more help when he was in need. i helped him buy a better car with a loan which he's paid back.

basically, i just wanted to brace you for the hard parts... cuz there'll be plenty. but if he's from your genetic pool he's probably smarter than average. sooner or later kids who are smart start to recognize destructive patterns if there are consequences. but there need to be consequences or they'll never start to piece that puzzle together.

good luck.

sparticle · 06-14-2004, 12:39 AM

xerocs, I love ya. Thank you.

And yes, I would like to get him into the services. I think a few more months of this and he might be open to it. He was in Junior Navy ROTC in HS and loved it, but he screwed up and got into trouble (misdemeanors) and they said to come back in a year with two job references. I think the Marines or Army would probably take him now, though. I keep talking to the recruiters when they call. LOL

masterofNone · 06-14-2004, 12:41 AM

might want to wait until november.

sparticle · 06-14-2004, 12:57 AM

MoN, bless you, dear.

I think the hardest part is knowing that Son is going to have to hit bottom. My husband doesn't quite see that in frantically trying to spare M. that, he is just prolonging the agony. You'd think after being married to me he'd "get" it, but on the other hand, rescue and enable is kind of "what he does".

But it takes one to know one, and I know that the same bug that bit me is biting my son, and that the only way (for him or me) to get through it is to get through it. I have no doubt that life is going to hand him some real ugliness and the hardest part is going to be having to watch. He inherited my concrete cranium, all right, and nobody "knows it all" like the fellow (or gal) who knows nothing! I was The World's Foremost Authority on Everything for nearly forty years, and every so often I try to reclaim the title. LOL Son M. is currently claiming the title, and I know he's going to need a few hard knocks to teach him what I cannot.

The good news is that, as you so kindly observed, somewhere beneath that skull of concrete is a working brain, and eventually he will begin to piece together that doing A yields result A every time, for good or for bad. Since he is a rather funloving fellow who neither likes to look awful nor likes to feel awful, I have a hunch that eventually he will start to connect the dots. But he couldn't do so unless given the opportunity. The hard part is handing him the "opportunity" and praying he doesn't get into anything he can't get out of.

But as you know and I am probably going to be learning soon, all you can really do is trust in a benevolent All, be there in times of valid need and not bail him out of self-concocted crapfests, and try in the meantime to take care of other responsibilities and not let the rest of your life be all about that.

And thanks.

06-13-2004, 01:46 PM	#1
sparticle Conspiracy Theorist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cleveland, oh Posts: 4,702	very bad stuff Yesterday was a very bad day. I threw my son out of the house. He has been refusing to look for work, and Friday he took $20.00 from my purse. Again. This has been going on for months. I have had it, and i blew up. He's been out of school (HS) for a year (he's 19) and refused to look for anything more serious than an occasional temporary job. I wouldn't care except that he has had a nasty attitude (telling us to "shut the fvck up" is common practice), helps himself to everything around here as if it belonged to him, and stolen money (significant amounts) from all of us. His latest thing is that since he can't pass a urine test, he is being "discriminated" against and shouldn't even bother to look for work. We have offered him every kind of help, including giving him a car with paid insurance, which he used for a party vehicle until we took it back. Now my husband is angry with me because he thinks I "failed" my son, that I am "weak", and that if it weren't for my temper we could still be "helping" him. We are not speaking. We are both sad, angry and disappointed. My son, meanwhile, went to stay with some friends. I feel terrible about throwing him out, but it was either that or call the police and have them take him for stealing (again). Maybe that's what I should have done; I don't know. Last time he ripped off my husband for 80 bucks out of his wallet. My husband is upset with me and says the kid might never come back. I am torn between crying and being heartbroken and thinking "Good! I should be so lucky as never to have to deal with this crap again!" I realize this is stuff that belongs in a family counselor's office and not on a message board but it is Sunday morning, there are no counselors' offices open, and this beats drinking a 12-pack and telling everyone to fvck off (but not by much). Thank you for listening.

06-13-2004, 02:16 PM	#4
trisherina meretricious dilettante Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,068	Remember that doing the right thing is often the hardest; it would be so much easier to always give kids what they want. Your son is lucky to have you as an example when it comes to going from doing what's wrong for you to doing what's right for you, and by that I mean staying away from the twelve pack even when it's tough. What a rotten weekend, indeed. __________________ Because how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard

06-13-2004, 02:27 PM	#6
Avalon Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: A much better place Posts: 5,931	Spart, you did the right thing; there is a huge difference between helping someone and ENABLING them. Your husband has got to learn the difference. As the old saying goes: you can't help someone who will not help themselves. I know about this first hand and I know it is painful. Hsb. is making it worse by not being supportive. I think he thinks he, not you, has failed your son, not you. And guilt makes it alot easier to be angry. Read your pms. deb __________________ I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it. Groucho Marx

06-13-2004, 06:40 PM	#8
Aphrodite Myth Demeanour Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: My tent Posts: 3,041	Hey Spart. Sunday afternoon and I understand the need to purge. You did do the best thing you could. You have raised him. He is basically a decent guy I am sure. He just hasn't had to earn anything for survival yet. This is the kick in the pants he needed. He will learn that he needs to earn everything. You earn respect. You earn income. You earn what you need to survive on, and hopefully a little extra for some fun things. Our kids have all learned how to enjoy the fun in life but not the earning aspect. He will learn to be polite like you taught him, or he won't get much. He will learn to work for what he has been taking for granted. This is a hard part for you, and him, but he will grow up for it. Just stand your ground and be too damn stubborn to let any man or bottle beat you. __________________ Monkey on the Halfshell

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06-13-2004, 01:55 PM	#2
AllegroNg What I Am Wearing. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Near DC Posts: 2,573	I know I'm not a parent, but I say you did do the right thing. This is helping him, no matter how hard it hurts you.

06-13-2004, 02:02 PM	#3
topcat monkey Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: across the st. from the telephone pole Posts: 1,970	i feel for you sparticle, i think you did the right thing. i also think your husband should be backing you.and you cant blame yourself for your sons actions you can only do your best and hope for the best.i know it hard for you but dont blame yourself.

06-13-2004, 02:19 PM	#5
masterofNone ________ Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,131	i did the same thing with my son four years ago. he thanks me for it all the time. now he's got a reasonably good job, a nice apartment & car, a fiancee that's a sweetheart, and he's starting to line up going back to college. you did okay. it's important to keep talking, but more important to be firm and not tolerate stupidity on his part.

06-13-2004, 04:06 PM	#7
nycwriters Stuck in T.O. Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Floundering Posts: 4,134	As a person who's struggled with your own personal addictions, you know that this was the right thing to do. I'm sorry you had to do it, I can only imagine how much it broke your heart. Sometimes you don't appreciate what you have until you lose it. And after it's lost, regaining it again is the bottom some of us need to feel firmly thumping us on our asses to make us smarten up and make a change that's needed. I'm here if you need me. I went through the same thing with D. I understand the heartache.

06-13-2004, 10:04 PM	#9
sparticle Conspiracy Theorist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cleveland, oh Posts: 4,702	You guys are the best. I really appreciate it. It was a tough day. I went for a five mile walk through the Cleveland Metroparks along the Canal Trails (for those of you on Monkey Mail, I will be sending postcards -- it is 2.5 miles to the Nature Center Gift Shop and 2.5 miles back. If you couldn't shop, I wouldn't go. Just kidding. I think.). When I got back and showered up and did some more thinking, my husband reappeared from working on the third floor and reached out wordlessly for a hug. He still feels bad and thinks we should have gone through the "proper channels" (housing court, eviction, possibly filing a police report, etc.), which would have taken at least three weeks to get resolved -- three more weeks of this. I just told him, "J., when you are dealing with an unruly tenant, that's exactly the right course of action. And maybe in your eyes, it's still the right course of action -- discipline without anger and tons of warning. But I am human. I have my own issues with addiction and consequences. Perhaps I don't have your strength. But believe me when I say that I didn't act vindictively. I had simply had more than I could continue to take. Everyone's breaking point is different. If he continues to do what he is doing, he is going to find out in short order that the world has an even lower tolerance level than mine. He needs to learn. It's time. We're not throwing an infant into a snowbank here. He needs to understand choices and consequences." He accepts this, and although we have agreed to disagree in some ways, J. respects my views. (Not to make it a joking matter, but I think when J. went to get a clean pair of underwear this morning and actually had one that had not been swiped, his own view may have softened a bit toward me. LOL) Thanks, all of you, for your support, particularly those of you who have been there, and thanks for letting me know that it's not a hopeless case. MoN, I am particularly heartened by your story -- it helps me to know that there's another parent who has come through this and that things did work out. You guys are the best. Thanks for being there for me. I'm still sober, and I'm still crazy, with continuing periods of craziness and sobriety expected to continue throughout tonight. XO

06-13-2004, 10:23 PM	#10
sparticle Conspiracy Theorist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cleveland, oh Posts: 4,702	Also, as I was saying in a PM, it did occur to me this morning that you can go to jail for choking someone without ever taking a drink, and that slowed my wrath down considerably, since I am not about to get thrown into the goddam bullpen ever again for anything I didn't have a ball doing. The Tank is no place you'd want to be cold sober. LOL Or, my version of the Serenity Prayer: "Ahhhh, throw a bucket of fvckit on it." Perhaps I'll do it up in cross-stitch. LOL

06-13-2004, 10:25 PM	#11
xerocs Lurk Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rapid City, SoDak Posts: 1,341	Spart, Where do I begin? I am 27 years old. I have been in my career field for nine years now. No drugs. Not usually late for teh job I can't stand. Just got my Associates Degree. Three payments away from actually owning my car... even if it is a Kia it is mine, almost. Divorced. Ex-wife calls every now and then and asks me to sign away the rights to my daughter. Doing the best I can to be a good Dad... failing miserabley but still trying. So... what am I getting at? I was exactly like your son 9 years ago. My Mom went through the same turmoil with me. I look back now and wish that it hadn't been that way. I do however pride myself in the fact that everytime I call my Mom she says that I have made her proud. I live for that phone call.... That tiny affirmation that I have made her happy and shown her that her efforts were not wasted. If I may make a suggestion.... I know that it is not for everyone and it definately is not the answer to all things, but... have you looked into the services for him? If you want you can give me a call and bend my ear anytime.... and that goes for anyone on this board. You monkeys gave me a shoulder to lean on in my time of need and I would do anything to give that back.

06-13-2004, 10:33 PM	#12
masterofNone ________ Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,131	okay, now let ,me brace you for the downside a bit. cuz, i think you know it's going to be a rough patch. it was the hardest thing i'd ever done. after i evicted the boy, he "moved" to maryland and stayed with friends. i found out later that he'd spent three months in the spring essentially living out of his car. he hooked up with a bunch of kids who were all current or former heroin addicts and began an 18 month relationship with a girl who was marginally pschizophrenic. he had a few really rough months during which we stopped talking completely. essentially he hit bottom. then things started to turn upward, as they do when you've got no further to fall. he got a job working in a home for developmentally diasabled young adults. the home gave him a room and a pretty good salary. it took a year before we were on anything like a good relationship again. bit by bit he added to his life. sometimes the addition was through subtraction. he found a more stable group of friends. he pulled himself into his better life. and, y'know, as he did better i offered more help when he was in need. i helped him buy a better car with a loan which he's paid back. basically, i just wanted to brace you for the hard parts... cuz there'll be plenty. but if he's from your genetic pool he's probably smarter than average. sooner or later kids who are smart start to recognize destructive patterns if there are consequences. but there need to be consequences or they'll never start to piece that puzzle together. good luck.

06-14-2004, 12:39 AM	#13
sparticle Conspiracy Theorist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cleveland, oh Posts: 4,702	xerocs, I love ya. Thank you. And yes, I would like to get him into the services. I think a few more months of this and he might be open to it. He was in Junior Navy ROTC in HS and loved it, but he screwed up and got into trouble (misdemeanors) and they said to come back in a year with two job references. I think the Marines or Army would probably take him now, though. I keep talking to the recruiters when they call. LOL

06-14-2004, 12:41 AM	#14
masterofNone ________ Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,131	might want to wait until november.

06-14-2004, 12:57 AM	#15
sparticle Conspiracy Theorist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cleveland, oh Posts: 4,702	MoN, bless you, dear. I think the hardest part is knowing that Son is going to have to hit bottom. My husband doesn't quite see that in frantically trying to spare M. that, he is just prolonging the agony. You'd think after being married to me he'd "get" it, but on the other hand, rescue and enable is kind of "what he does". But it takes one to know one, and I know that the same bug that bit me is biting my son, and that the only way (for him or me) to get through it is to get through it. I have no doubt that life is going to hand him some real ugliness and the hardest part is going to be having to watch. He inherited my concrete cranium, all right, and nobody "knows it all" like the fellow (or gal) who knows nothing! I was The World's Foremost Authority on Everything for nearly forty years, and every so often I try to reclaim the title. LOL Son M. is currently claiming the title, and I know he's going to need a few hard knocks to teach him what I cannot. The good news is that, as you so kindly observed, somewhere beneath that skull of concrete is a working brain, and eventually he will begin to piece together that doing A yields result A every time, for good or for bad. Since he is a rather funloving fellow who neither likes to look awful nor likes to feel awful, I have a hunch that eventually he will start to connect the dots. But he couldn't do so unless given the opportunity. The hard part is handing him the "opportunity" and praying he doesn't get into anything he can't get out of. But as you know and I am probably going to be learning soon, all you can really do is trust in a benevolent All, be there in times of valid need and not bail him out of self-concocted crapfests, and try in the meantime to take care of other responsibilities and not let the rest of your life be all about that. And thanks.