The difference between liberals and conservatives - ZEFRANK.COM

Klynne · 06-03-2005, 10:34 PM

Maybe this should be on the debate thread, I am not sure. No, wait, it isn't really a debate, it is observations. So, I will go first.

The extreme liberals I have met seem to hate the country they live in. They can point out all faults of the administration, but never can admit that the government has done some good things. For example, we have programs that do help the poor with housing and such. I am first to admit that it is not enough, but we try. The Republicans do make it a little more difficult, they do not believe in social welfare programs and try to cut them, but there are enough advocacy groups to fight the total elimination of these programs. The faith based things that Bush advocates kind of irks me, because although I am Catholic, I believe in the separation of church and state, and Bush is really blurring this line.

I can't stomach the ultra conservatives either. I find them heartless, and they can never admit when they have been wrong. They just start spewing a bunch of crap about being misinformed. Not one of them can say, hey Bush and his administration farked up.

So I have opened myself up to some bashing so lets hear it.

Klynne · 06-03-2005, 10:35 PM

Wow, just read what I wrote and I guess I am biased.

Brynn · 06-04-2005, 12:03 AM

Yup, this probably should go in Debate Hall

.
And yeah, I do think there's a, um, a bit of a bias there, but everyone has a bias. That's what makes the world interesting . Since I'm new to the board, I'm not familiar with alll your posts, Klynne, so at least I haven't formed an opinion about you except that you strike me as a really nice person, so that's always a good place to start.
Could I ask - by "extreme" liberals , are you actually thinking about anarchists? They're the only ones that seem (to me anyway) to actually hate all forms of government and want to destroy it in order to start all over again. I don't put radical liberals in that group, but I guess it's important to define terms before jumping in. Or are you talking about libertarians, a whole different animal?

I'm a liberal, daughter of a Viet Nam Marine, with several family members in the military. I'm close to people who would describe themselves as radical liberals, as well as people who are ultra-conservatives, so I'm interested in talking about this. There is far too little dialogue between the two groups, and I think that if people really could speak frankly about these things, they would find that there is far less difference between them than they might originally think. But I'm leery of jumping in without ground rules.

I think discussion can be most fruitful if both sides will assume one thing:
liberals and conservatives alike both love their country, passionately.

I think M. Scott Peck said it best in his excellent book about the nature of evil, People Of the Lie. He claims that the opposite of love is not hate, but apathy. In other words, the people I get mad at are the idiot voters who don't know who the current Secretary of State is or where the Mississippi River is, or who was president during the Civil War. They want their analysis condensed into sound bites, and form their opinions between mouthfuls while hypnotically watching commercial after commercial from corporate interests. They get their news from T.V. (if at all), and wholeheartedly believe everything that is presented to them with no critical filters because a spin doctor said so. Then these poor souls go out and vote. Red or blue, I am full of disdain for them.

How liberal/conservative patriotism is expressed is going to be different, and that should be the focus of the discussion. Otherwise things might just devolve into name-calling because of the passions involved. ("You're a traitor because blah blah blah! " "No! You're the traitor because blah blah blah!" or - my favorite - "If you don't support the president in times of war, then you don't care about the soldiers over there!"). No one hates their country or their armed forces if they up there talking about it and involved in activism and trying to make things better. If both sides can agree that everyone has the same good intentions for the country, then I think the discussion could be interesting.

But you really might want to move this to Debate Hall...and good for you for opening up the question!

daverbee · 06-06-2005, 12:32 PM

I heard somebody make the best description of liberals and conservatives once:

If you're drowning 100 feet from shore, a conservative will throw you a 50 foot rope and tell you to swim.

If you're drowning 100 feet from shore, a liberal will throw you a 100 foot rope, drop his end, and go find another good deed to do.

Brynn · 06-07-2005, 12:05 AM

That reminds me of the saying "If you're a Republican before the age of forty, you have no heart. If you're a Democrat after the age of forty, you have no brain."

daverbee · 06-07-2005, 05:53 PM

Clytie · 06-21-2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brynn

That reminds me of the saying "If you're a Republican before the age of forty, you have no heart. If you're a Democrat after the age of forty, you have no brain."

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey i resent that

06-03-2005, 10:34 PM	#1
Klynne monkey Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 4,543	The difference between liberals and conservatives Maybe this should be on the debate thread, I am not sure. No, wait, it isn't really a debate, it is observations. So, I will go first. The extreme liberals I have met seem to hate the country they live in. They can point out all faults of the administration, but never can admit that the government has done some good things. For example, we have programs that do help the poor with housing and such. I am first to admit that it is not enough, but we try. The Republicans do make it a little more difficult, they do not believe in social welfare programs and try to cut them, but there are enough advocacy groups to fight the total elimination of these programs. The faith based things that Bush advocates kind of irks me, because although I am Catholic, I believe in the separation of church and state, and Bush is really blurring this line. I can't stomach the ultra conservatives either. I find them heartless, and they can never admit when they have been wrong. They just start spewing a bunch of crap about being misinformed. Not one of them can say, hey Bush and his administration farked up. So I have opened myself up to some bashing so lets hear it.

06-06-2005, 12:32 PM	#4
daverbee Key Lime Pie rocks!!! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oh, yeah! Posts: 7,695	I heard somebody make the best description of liberals and conservatives once: If you're drowning 100 feet from shore, a conservative will throw you a 50 foot rope and tell you to swim. If you're drowning 100 feet from shore, a liberal will throw you a 100 foot rope, drop his end, and go find another good deed to do. __________________ Time is essential because without it everything would happen all at once.

06-07-2005, 12:05 AM	#5
Brynn constantly amazed Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: in the labyrinth of shared happiness Posts: 6,206	That reminds me of the saying "If you're a Republican before the age of forty, you have no heart. If you're a Democrat after the age of forty, you have no brain." Last edited by Brynn : 06-21-2005 at 06:00 AM. Reason: Um...I'm a democrat and - oh nevermind.

06-07-2005, 05:53 PM	#6
daverbee Key Lime Pie rocks!!! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oh, yeah! Posts: 7,695	__________________ Time is essential because without it everything would happen all at once.

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06-03-2005, 10:35 PM	#2
Klynne monkey Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 4,543	Wow, just read what I wrote and I guess I am biased.

06-04-2005, 12:03 AM	#3
Brynn constantly amazed Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: in the labyrinth of shared happiness Posts: 6,206	Yup, this probably should go in Debate Hall . And yeah, I do think there's a, um, a bit of a bias there, but everyone has a bias. That's what makes the world interesting . Since I'm new to the board, I'm not familiar with alll your posts, Klynne, so at least I haven't formed an opinion about you except that you strike me as a really nice person, so that's always a good place to start. Could I ask - by "extreme" liberals , are you actually thinking about anarchists? They're the only ones that seem (to me anyway) to actually hate all forms of government and want to destroy it in order to start all over again. I don't put radical liberals in that group, but I guess it's important to define terms before jumping in. Or are you talking about libertarians, a whole different animal? I'm a liberal, daughter of a Viet Nam Marine, with several family members in the military. I'm close to people who would describe themselves as radical liberals, as well as people who are ultra-conservatives, so I'm interested in talking about this. There is far too little dialogue between the two groups, and I think that if people really could speak frankly about these things, they would find that there is far less difference between them than they might originally think. But I'm leery of jumping in without ground rules. I think discussion can be most fruitful if both sides will assume one thing: liberals and conservatives alike both love their country, passionately. I think M. Scott Peck said it best in his excellent book about the nature of evil, People Of the Lie. He claims that the opposite of love is not hate, but apathy. In other words, the people I get mad at are the idiot voters who don't know who the current Secretary of State is or where the Mississippi River is, or who was president during the Civil War. They want their analysis condensed into sound bites, and form their opinions between mouthfuls while hypnotically watching commercial after commercial from corporate interests. They get their news from T.V. (if at all), and wholeheartedly believe everything that is presented to them with no critical filters because a spin doctor said so. Then these poor souls go out and vote. Red or blue, I am full of disdain for them. How liberal/conservative patriotism is expressed is going to be different, and that should be the focus of the discussion. Otherwise things might just devolve into name-calling because of the passions involved. ("You're a traitor because blah blah blah! " "No! You're the traitor because blah blah blah!" or - my favorite - "If you don't support the president in times of war, then you don't care about the soldiers over there!"). No one hates their country or their armed forces if they up there talking about it and involved in activism and trying to make things better. If both sides can agree that everyone has the same good intentions for the country, then I think the discussion could be interesting. But you really might want to move this to Debate Hall...and good for you for opening up the question!