Well this was an eye-opener

[Frieda]

the original post scared me quite a bit.. i can't believe some of you didn't know this.. is it really true that the american newspapers or television stations don't mention these things? i mean,

[amanda]

I'll tell you something Frieda, as an American living outside of the reach of the Three Stooges (Tom Brokaw, Peter Jennings, Dan Rather) and USA Today- I feel like I'm more informed on international issues- particularly ones that make America unpopular among the rest of the world (which is becoming quite alot these days)- than I did while I was living in the U.S.

But as far as American ATTITUDES about our position in the world and what we hear about our own actions- I still go to American news websites. It's always interesting to me to see what we chose to listen about ourselves in contrast as to what else is going on in the world.

And there IS a contrast- sometimes to the point of changing the story entirely.

We are, quite possibly, one of only two countries I know of that has such an elaborate PR-like media structure used primary on its own people- or needs one.

The other country, you may ask?
China.

[masterofNone]

is it really true that the american newspapers or television stations don't mention these things?

You see things like this in the op-ed section sometimes... And they are shouted down by the conservatives with taunts and derision. The conservatives have won a great coup by convincing the media that they can't oppose conservatives without being branded with the "liberal media" moniker. The result is that the media in America is now almost entirely conservative in its coverage. The irony is, I think most of the media IS liberal... but they're afraid to step out of line and be branded. Liberal has become tantemount to Un-American.

[amanda]

I saw an fairly brave interview of one of the said Stooges- Dan Rather- on BBC a few months ago.

He basically said the same thing MoN just said- that journalists are scared to be labeled "un-patriotic" if criticism is directed in the direction of the people in the leadership roles. Now is not the time for dissidence, but rallying around the cause and fight for what's right.

The only thing is- what is right? And who gets to ask that question? Normally, the media is allowed (and expected) to hold leaders accountable to that question- until now.

In this way, terrorists continue to win. We have psyched ourselves out our freedom of press. Time will tell if this is a permanent condition.

[dickieC]

It seems pretty long-lasting to me - it's a function, in part, of having the head of state and the head of government combined. Can't criticise Mr. President because he's commander in chief.

It's curious, being better informed (it would seem) than the general American population makes me less scared that a war to remove Saddam Hussein would be a bad thing. Lefties in the UK seem to be acting all inconsistent. George Galloway MP (a nutter who has campaigned long and hard against sanctions on Iraq because they affect the Iraqi population and not the regime) spoke at a meeting of the Oxford Union debating society about a year ago, castigating Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe and calling for enforced sanctions and intervention by the western powers. Yet the pacifist left is saying that we shouldn't go to war against Iraq to end a thoroughly brutal dictatorship. I absolutely agree that the reason why W. and his cronies want to make war now is because they are in the pocket of the oil companies. But I believe lefties, or what Americans call Liberals, should campaign both for an end to the Iraqi regime and for Bush to implement the Kyoto protocol on cutting emissions. The heart of the problem are the SUV's and the American public refusal to pay for gas at anything like the prices we pay in Europe (because of environmental taxes, something like 80% of the price of petrol in the UK is fuel excise duty for the government).

[masterofNone]

Here's some light reading... I don't vouch for the conclusions drawn (tho I have my suspicions) but many of the facts are verifiable as a matter of public record.

http://www.networkideas.org/news/feb...y_taliban1.htm

http://www.fro.at/sendungen/islam/Enron.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1336960.stm

Biggest industry donators to Bush campaign
Enron $1.8m
Exxon $1.2m
Koch Industries $970,000
Southern $900,000
BP Amoco $800,000
El Paso Energy $787,000
Chevron Oil Corp $780,000
Reliant Energy $642,000
Texas Utilities $635,000

[Red Princess]

of course it is about oil and money, George W does not give a damn about the Iraqi people being oppressed. I choose to believe, although i may be worng , that the American people are not believing all the rhetoric in the press, we are notoriously sceptical of anything politicians have to say and the level of hysteria leads me to think that the Bush administration knows we are not going for it, so they keep upping the ante. I am also suspicious that George is just the mouthpiece (who needs to rehearse more) and the real sneaky bastard is Dick Cheney

[Red Princess]

then there is still hope that a catastophe will be averted, I have the White House email address in my address book and email them almost every week and tell them 'no war, i don't believe you'. I keep expecting the thought police to come knock on my door and call me unpatriotic names, or worse.

[zenbabe]

K, this is my first viewing of this thread. Peg, are you seriously trying to say that you never heard that this whole Iraq thing is about oil? Lets take a look at where good ol dubya is from, where his family is from and where all his good buddies are from. do you really think we can justify war on the fact that they found some empty warheads, that by the way have a firing distance of 6 miles. Not only that, they have one old russian ship that will probably break down. Not exactly a threat. This thing is screaming oil. You know what else really sux? They have had fuel cell technology for years that would eliminate the need for such massive amounts of oil for said SUV's and such, they just wont use it because it would shut down factories that make the parts we use now that suck down all that lovely oil, and not only that, those "oil people" would loose a fortune........anyone else see dollar signs in dubya's eyes?

[dickieC]

Just by way of gossip, The World Is Not Enough is on telly here tonight, the one where Bond saves the Baku oil wells from the baddies.

dC

[zenbabe]

Has anyone else heard the rumor that we are going to attack Iraq on monday?

[Red Princess]

i hope very much that you are kidding

[Red Princess]

Zemonkeys could generate a lot of negative email to the Whitehouse about it, if they were so inclined

[masterofNone]

The White house is already pretty set in their ways.

There are other targets of opportunity for emails that would be more effective. For example...

The op-ed pages of every newspaper.

Every Democratic congressman with a not so veiled threat laying out creative and effective methods to assure they don't get re-elected if they don't speak out against the war.

I mean, you've got to aim at someone who has power and has not already sold their soul.

[Red Princess]

i am such a cynic, my first thought was someone is power who hasn't sold their soul, who could that be? sorry bad day, you are absolutely right