Well this was an eye-opener

[Panda]

indeed,

i cant remember who said this but is it true that america also has huge reserves of tapped and untapped oil, but are just waiting until the middle eastern wells dry up?
thus having the monopoly on the market.

or is this just more conspiracy theory fuel without any factual base?

[amanda]

We do.

They are called "Columbia", "Venezuela" and "Arctic Wildlife National Refuge".

And guess where we just sent more troops to help protect a pipeline?

[masterofNone]

The thing we often ignore is that while we get something like 70% of our oil from North America... only about 20% of our oil comes from the Mid East in any case... American corporations make a great deal more than that selling the oil to the rest of the world. So while the administration would like to sell us on the idea that our national security interests are involved in Mid East oil.... it's really American Oil Companies' interests that we're talking about. We could get by with what we have here by tightening our belts and being more efficient... but if the oil companies lost their profits selling mid east oil, who would contribute to the campaign funds?

[Madmack]

Hmm.. I wonder...

http://www.trekshare.com/viewimage.c...d=21817&page=1

[noxxville]

So I've been reading all of this and I guess I'm just a little more jaded than most.

It's not just Dubya that's gone horribly wrong, let's not give him that much credit, it's the people in power around him that stand by as well.

I'm also not at all suprised by any of this. I've had this theory going for awhile that any person of power or influence that admantly pushes for any one thing (i.e. war, health care reform, etc) is doing so largely for reasons that they do not want you to know about.

It takes a certain kind of person to want that much power that badly.

[masterofNone]

If you're happy and you know it, bomb Iraq
By John Robbins

If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq
If the terrorists are frisky,
Pakistan is looking shifty,
North Korea is too risky,
Bomb Iraq.

If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq
If we think that someone's dissed us, bomb Iraq
So to hell with the inspections,
Let's look tough for the elections; close your mind and take directions;
Bomb Iraq.

Its preemptive nonaggression, bomb Iraq
to prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq
They've got weapons we can't see,
and that's all the proof we need.
If they're not there, they must be there.
Bomb Iraq.

If you never were elected, bomb Iraq.
If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq.
With the weapons that he had,
And he tried to kill your Dad,
Bomb Iraq.

If corporate fraud is growing, bomb Iraq.
If your politics are sleazy,
And your manhood's getting queasy,
Bomb Iraq.

Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq.
For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq.
Disagree? We'll call it treason,
Lets make war, not love this season
even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq.

[StarsFireFly]

There's no reason for war...

Hmmm... this sounds familiar...
A bit too familiar...

Diplomacy is the key! Not war!

That, too... where have I heard this before?

Oh yes, it is the echos of the Western world in the thirties... right before the second world war.
I see the same patterns repeating themselves. A megalomaniac with a bad attitude. In this case, he even has a host of nuclear/chemical/biological weapons in his arsenal. And then you have Europe. Let's be friends... he won't really do anything bad. But, the truth is, he will. Saddam Hussein is a threat to mankind. He is incredibly smart, hard to catch, and a mass murderer. He has kille dthousands of people, raped thousands of women...

Bush is not simply trying to further himself, make more money. If he did, then he would have given up on Iraq looong ago. Bush just doesn't want to watch the world crumbling at the feet of a madman who wishes to kill pretty much every living thing in sight.
If you wish to die a slow, painful death from poison bombs or experience radiation, then maybe you should be like Sean Penn and tell that to Hussein. Although, considering you're American, he'd probably shoot you on the spot.

But hey, that's me! I'd rather not die. So I like Bush. He's a good man, and a good President (especially 'cause he ISN'T a liberal).

[masterofNone]

yeah because we all have watched Iraq annex Austria, invade Poland, conquer France and begin to threaten Great Britain.... Just like Nazi Germany.

Please. Saddam ain't Hitler. Saddam ain't even Castro.We live with Castro's Cuba 30 minutes from the US mainland by boat. There are a lot of bad guys in the world who we actually support. But we loves our SUVs so we're going to war.

I am a LIBERAL. And I'm loud and proud.

p.s. oh yeah, in 2004 we're going to take back what the GOP stole in 2002. Make book on it.

[noxxville]

amen.

[masterofNone]

Actually I'm not opposed to the GOP per se. Before the 2002 election I was best described as an independent and a centrist. But the abuse of the election process, the handling of civil liberties post 9/11, and the surreal shifting of blame from Al Queda to Iraq over the past 6 months has been proof to me that this administration is prosecuting it's own agenda. Their tactics of secrecy, bullying, and arrogance in achieving their goals domestically and internationally have made America more of a target not less.

You can see it on the faces of the best and brightest in the administration. Colin and Condi look more stressed everyday. I would bet one of them will step down before the year is out.

It will be interesting to see the protests develop. They'll be very different from the 1960s protests because there won't be the young hippy/drug culture stereotyping going on. Today's protesters will be of all ages and incomes. And the lesson was learned long ago to protest against the war not the soldiers.

America, love it or get loud.