Magic Dumpster:Fabuloso Friday 2/Fabuloso Chess

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Incredible, we can afford The Book!


Contents

Some restructuring...

Let's take this seriously, Ze will cut off the game when he feels this is getting booring etc. I think we should be supportive and do our best... so I will move most comments into three sub-pages of the talk page, as I see three kinds of responses

What you think? And please note that I'm being eqully sarcastic towards both camps, so don't be offended by the section names, it's just for fun! --Gelbitalk 05:46, 24 June 2006 (PDT)

This clears things up, yes. But also factionalizes opposing forces. If I know there is a crowd of folks scheming to take a huge dump on the chess board I am not very motivated to invest any time thinking about meaningless moves in a doomed game with irrelevant stakes. IMHO, creating a sandbox for destruction invites the walls of the sandbox to be overrun. --voodooboy 18:01, 28 June 2006 (PDT)

How to Contribute

This was on the main page... dumping it here for now:

  • Alright Fabulosos, over the next few hours there will probably be many people trying to edit this wiki, so be patient. If you want to suggest a move, add it under "suggested moves" and don't forget to sign your name. Sunday we will vote on which move we think is the best route. It is a bit early in the game, but if any Chess Masters would like to suggest "Official Chess Openings" - go for it - although I wouldn't put it past Ze Checkmate Frank to check the wiki. --mayorcj 10:47, 23 June 2006 (PDT)
    • I have to take the dubious honour of having not read this note and during a housecleaning and addition of boards fest making everying a 'speculative' move. Which I think sounds lame, even though I picked it. Move6 I'm going to contemplate aggressively renaming all instances of speculative to suggested (per the suggested move overview by mayorcjSR)(Maybe even do it on Move5 but there are some internal links now that I'm loathe to mess up). Is this over-aggressive wiki editing? medwardstalk
  • It has been suggested that we use Algebraic Notation as the official notation of sports racers.
  • More challenging than the game may be how we decide on the move and get it to Ze. How about a volunteer to submit the move?bobbie_mac

woa.ok. kings pawn up one. err however it is in notation

Pawn to Queen Five

  • I would like to apologize for the whole "pawn to queen five" comment. I just realised this move is impossible for black to make. As for the notation, I suggest algebraic notation (ranks nubered from white's end and files numbered from white's left) as any other form seems to confuse the heck outta me (as shown previously). -Funky Citrus

Strategy Discussion

Be careful out there Ze's middle name is Checkmate for a reason, he even beat his cat Annie once, although to be fair she might not be to good at chess since she tried the Nimzovitch defense against his king pawn opening... See the video of his victory dance afterwards here, click the button for "Proper Training".

*Yo, guys? Have we stopped to contemplate that Fabuloso Chess doesn't actually have the same rules as run-of-the-mill Chess? May I put to you that we can actually do anything? By definition, Fabuloso means that we make the rules, hence the writing of the script. When translated to Fabuloso Chess, surely we are the boses! I am thinking: *Bring in a Duckie Pawn which is invincible, and can go anywhere in the field Any other suggestions? Schamaun, let's go for it! :D CeruleanNinja 07:35, 24 June 2006 (PDT)
No, but let's collect such ideas at the anti-intellectualism page, even if it is clever... I'll add a section for ingenious comic twists... --Gelbitalk 08:02, 24 June 2006 (PDT)
  • The top move in the list seems to just get peoples default vote. Someone has an idea to randomize major sections, which would be great. Failing that I think we should make a lot of effort to make sure there is ample supporting material in the moves further down.

Board to make it easier for people to see the game

  • There are chessboard templates on Wikipedia (see [1] and [2]). I'd imagine that this game will attract the attention of the WikiChess crowd -- could someone who's familiar with all this copy the templates here and get us set up? (The board below is presently a hardcoded bitmap.) muyfabulosotalk 12:11, 23 June 2006 (PDT)
    • An option: wikipedia:Fabuloso_Chess
    • heh, cheater! not sure it'll survive the Wikipedia delete mafia, though. :) 69.37.221.177 15:23, 23 June 2006 (PDT)
    • Ze doesn't have the Chess template installed on his wiki, that's why it will not work on the sports racer wiki
      • Right, somebody has to copy the template here and upload all the pieces
      • I uploaded the ones necessary to draw this one... The rest of the images are here. And we can upload them on demand. Oh, but wait, we should turn the board around, we are black! And that gives even more time to procrastinate... --Gelbitalk 05:06, 24 June 2006 (PDT)
        • Actually, i don't think we can turn around the wiki made boards that easily... there might be a different template for that. But I like the photo idea! --Gelbitalk 06:49, 24 June 2006 (PDT)
  • Uh-oh... The wikipedia delete maffia :) --Gelbitalk 17:04, 25 June 2006 (PDT)

Questions

Is ze really playing or is it a computer?

Is there any actual way to exclude just Ze from an open conversation about the game?

  • No. All we really store on the wiki is IP, email, and nickname. All of these are forge-able and even were they not forge-able, anonymous submissions are allowed.

InterPodcastChessSmackdown

Amanda not playing chess on her 06-23-06 show
Enlarge
Amanda not playing chess on her 06-23-06 show

Today, when Ze announced Fabuloso Chess, I noticed that Amanda had a chess board on her show too. Shouldn't we just have Ze and Amanda play chess by having their moves appear each day in their podcast? - pablos.

Good luck in having "Ze and Amanda play chess by having their moves appear each day in their podcast". How do you expect to get that done? Fancy editing?
Uh, instead of saying "Pawn to C4, kaboom!" There'd just be a chessboard in the background of some shot with the appropriate move set up. I think Amanda would prefer Battleship though.

Idea

Seriously zefrank, your show lacks fire and the meaning behind deragetory words for homosexuality. Such as :faggot, a bundle of sticks, like the people/things they burned for being who they are! I like fire, but not burning people. Fill a tennis ball with rubbing alchohol, light it, and kick it to minneapple.

Sara the Chess Player

As a seasoned chess player, my favorite opening move in response to this one is g8 to f6. I wrote that, but I think I made a mistake. I'm not too skilled in wiki-ness...

The Shoutbox, discussion pages... etc...

Well, I see not many people are modifying the dedicated discussion pages. I'm wondering if too much structure, with headlines and diagrammes is scaring people away... that was the precisely the reason for having a shoutbox on the main page, so I'm happy people are using that at least, but judging by the level of competence in chess, they must be intelligent people, so I'm surprised why they don't follow the links on top of the page. --Gelbitalk 16:31, 25 June 2006 (PDT)

Actually, I just came up with a theory, many people seem to be used to a forum like concept, so appending stuff, so adding a comment in the middle of a page seems unfamiliar. --Gelbitalk 16:34, 25 June 2006 (PDT)
I really don't think people are scared away by the structure, you did a great job there. I think it's mostly a matter of buzz: the Fabulosos Fridays were announced a good two weeks in advance, people were reminded daily, there was a lot more time for the thing to snowball. And the concept of chess naturally connects a lot less to masses of people than the proposition that "we can make this wacky guy on the interweb do all kinds of crazy stuff, cool!" - Disso 16:41, 25 June 2006 (PDT)

On the next Fabuloso Friday, can the script include Ze making a really bad move?


Bold Move

bold move day.

About the voting...

I don't know, how or if we split the powermoves, yes maybe that's the best idea, we vote for both a real chess move and for our favourite power move. Then Ze can decide which one to pick, or we could vote between doing a real chess move and a power move, or just not distinguish them at all. I would personally prefer at least having voted on one real chess move... --Gelbitalk 16:00, 25 June 2006 (PDT)

And just in time too, thanks Gelbi. I admit I feel a bit remiss in not paying much attention to the discussion. One of the questions for which it may be too late is: do we really want to do a real chess game, is that the most fun or awesome thing to do together? If it's to be a real game, we'll probably have a little corner of geeks doing the moves for who knows how many weeks. It doesn't seem to me to be a thing where everyone can contribute. But then again that would be fine in itself, why not. And so on. It's late over here ^_^ - Disso 16:07, 25 June 2006 (PDT)
Well, my attitude was that let's at least pretend we are doing our absolute best to do a real chess move, and we'll let Ze decide on the surprises and twists, but in no way do I want to put down any attempts at higher levels of awesomeness on parts of the sports racers!! --Gelbitalk 16:21, 25 June 2006 (PDT)
Um, yeah! that sounds about right. Thanks for clearing up my head for me. And if there's some more voting later on about who should send our move to Ze, consider my vote to be for you, just in case you'd want to take on that honor. - Disso 16:34, 25 June 2006 (PDT)
Well thanks for the confidence, but I'm not in a very good timezone and I'm quite happy with almost any move... I'm more interested in getting more sportsracers interested in the wiki and try to make it easier for people to take part in the discussion... I don't like this "us vs. them" split among sportsracers about the fabuloso stuff! --Gelbitalk 16:44, 25 June 2006 (PDT)
Oh, I thought you were in the US. We should make a dedicated space soon so we can start some conversation on making the wiki better. I'm in the NL, so I really am going to hit the sack now. I mean it this time. I will. - Disso 16:51, 25 June 2006 (PDT)
I made a page here. - Disso 10:09, 26 June 2006 (PDT)
What is the "us vs. them" split? Yves 11:40, 26 June 2006 (PDT)
The "us vs. them" split... well the term comes from Ze's comment introducing fabuloso friday 2: "The segment when you write the show... unless you didn't write it, and then it's them". It has to do with people being hurt by the evil wiki process during fabuloso friday 1, which is also why we have a magic dumpster and comments like "fabuloso friday will suck...". But right now, I feel the athmosphere on this wiki is very good. :) --Gelbitalk 19:14, 27 June 2006 (PDT)

Alright, there's some moves ahead but here's my idea: Rather than Nf6, Qa4 AFTER we take his N3! He'll have to take our bishop with either P or Q, and if P that'll be best for our Q to check. We then move Bd7 to support. OR we take his Pc4! Then we move Qc6 and keep N to guard that...


Our current move

It looks very much like we will play

4. Nf3 Nf6
"Oh fabulosos, is someone blowing ass-bubbles in the hot tub of strategy?
N to f3, put that in a pipe. Then put the pipe down and punch yourself in the nuts. [Oooo!]"
"Do you always chortle like a hyena just before you make a fatal blunder?"

If you disagree, please have your say about the move or the taunt.

  • This strikes me very much as campaigning at the polls, while not a terrible idea, methinks it is unfair to the other moves, none of which at this stage in the game are "bad." Also, to all of those who say collaborative chess isn't feasable with "Strategery" and all, be comforted that in Kasparov v. the World, the World gave Kasparov a run for this money. I think we need to rely on Ze not being a hard charger and snooping on the wiki. But maybe I'm too trusting. mayorcjSR 16:37, 28 June 2006 (PDT)
    • My intention was quite the oposite, to get people who only look at the front page to react, if they don't agree with this move. It has increased some activity on the taunt page... --gelbitalk 16:51, 28 June 2006 (PDT)


Shoutbox dumping area

Holy hell the taunts really are just shit pulled out of some random ass. Honestly this verbal diarrhea is embarrassing and a disgrace to the game. Use something from the "good taunt" section, not some half digested regurgitation of Ze's insult. -Graymon

Is there a veto procedure to challenge a move that got voted in but is still a grave error? Kingpatzer 08:02, 7 July 2006 (PDT)

I believe arc already answered that question for you .. "Not playing collaborative chess, I think." ... put succinctly: No. I see the chickens laid in move 3 are about to come home to roost.

Prediction: ze in 16

  • What are the stakes?


Major .. if you plan on submitting the vote at midnight .. you're going to have to be the tiebreaking vote .. if it comes to that. It's 10-10 right now .. ßrigaderant


Could someone explain the last moves, up to that point you were doing reasonably fine, then 8. .. b6 and Ze's 9. a3  ??? What is going on? Doesn't material mean anything in the league of awesomeness??? --gelbitalk 08:40, 10 July 2006 (PDT) Kingpatzer showed up starting at move 8 .. read the move threads. I don't understand it either .. and last I heard Major was submitting the votes @ midnight .. and it was tied 10-10 at the time, I told him it was up to him to break the tie when he submitted the move. If he didn't .. well I have no idea what's going on. ßrigaderant 09:29, 10 July 2006 (PDT)

  • ummm I was against b6 and for c6. a3 is either a blunder by Ze not taking advantage of our mistake (cxd5 after b6 would have been a disaster) _OR_ he's wanting to make a game of it so he choose a move to allow us the chance to equalize. In either case, after Bxc3 we're going to be back to being fine with equal chances Kingpatzer 11:57, 10 July 2006 (PDT)

I thought I would offer myself as a send-in-move-backup guy if either mayor/bobbie_mac/brigade can't. I live in PST so I will be up by closing, and would even abstain from voting so it would stay fair. Geedubber 10:04, 10 July 2006 (PDT)

We need to set up a list of 'backups' .. and I think that in the case of a tie (as it was last night) the vote submitter should cast the tie-breaker vote, even if it means voting twice. 68.189.211.207

A Plea for Peace

I think some of us are missing the point a little here. We're not really playing chess, we're performing an experiment in collective governance and conflict resolution. We're looking at how individuals exert influence. Do they try to set up familiar institutions (voting), do they try to "cheat", do they build coalitions or cliques, do they resort to long and persuasive argument?

Whatever you do here, remember this is world where we KNOW a higher power (Ze) is watching us, and that He probably doesn't care who wins or loses. So be polite, be kind, be in your heart and not in your head. Remember that we're all brothers (and sisters?) here.

Except, of course, for the tards who voted for Nf6 in move 4 -- they should be disemboweled and set on fire. --Neal 13:16, 11 July 2006 (PDT)

  • That was probably me... asshole! Besides, what social experiment are you talking about? The only social experiment on this wiki is you! And the above plea for peace sounds like those neo-neanderthals who claim modern life is unnatural, well it is not! This is just the natural evolution of things. Why do those damn Gorillas think we are responsible for the earth?? Well the point is that if fighting and bitching is the natural outcome of this game, then that's part of the social experiment as well, and the fact that a higher power is watching hasn't yet helped a single starving child in Somalia, so why should it help improve our behaviour?? --gelbitalk 14:12, 11 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Actually I looked back and well... I didn't vote for it... friends? --gelbitalk 14:25, 11 July 2006 (PDT)

Your errors and misdeeds are understandable Sister Gelbi, seeing how you have embraced evol (rocketboom) and forfeited your inner Ishmael. Repent and return to us. Your disembowelment will be very gentle.

Life for the chess pieces clearly IS unnatural. All the Leavers have left, the remaining pieces function solely as Takers. For our next move I propose we plant a Baobab tree (at d4), and then join hands and sing and dance naked (unless it's all guys, in which case high-fives and brewskis will be fine). --Neal 09:00, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

A Plea for Ending Needless Editorializing

Got to work this morning, and fired up the Fabuloso Chess page to see what the winning move was. What am I greeted with? "Voting Closed, Ba6 wins, sadly." Why? Why must you express your disdain for the decisions of the group? You have agreed to play collaborative chess. You are not in control of the game. It's called collaboration. If the move you wanted didn't get voted on, then your arguments weren't persuasive enough. If you don't like the way the game is heading, feel free to bugger off and leave it to those that are enjoying the process.

Please realize that a collaborative "player" against a single opponent will always be at a disadvantage. With no overriding authority, it is very difficult to maintain a single overall plan for where the game should go. Maybe some great moves get set up, but not carried out because someone more charismatic carries things in a different direction prior to the culmination of the plans. Maybe a bunch of asshats or novices show up and start making very bad decisions. There is nothing you can do to stop this.

Personally, I'm enjoying the game more for the discussions than the prospect of winning. Following through all of the analyses of different board positions is giving me new insight into a game that I haven't played since I was 13 years old. Please, stick with reasoned arguments for or against moves. No need to lose your temper, lose your cool, or lose hope.

Thanks.

--

Nicely put.

Some people are taking all of this way too seriously, and trying to exert ownership over something that cannot and should not be owned.

How about king's knight to 50.0770°, 14.4696°?

So how do we pick a move by midnight tonight? d5 seems to have the most supportive comments. Is that enough or do we need a poll or something?

I know absolutely nothing about Chess, but damn it, I say D5!!!!!!!!

Well said! :) --Gelbitalk 07:55, 24 June 2006 (PDT)

(SHOUTS!) ZEEEEE!!!!

I'm partial to knight (b8) to c6 as an opening move.

E7 to E6 - opens bishop and queen's diagonal moves.

Second that move!!! Second it, I say!! Those who don't second it get chess pieces spit at them!

Well I'll third it. Whats a chess game without the queen sqreading gore about the pitch?

Should I be talking "strategery" while Ze could be watching? Ze is like the NSA if he does!

Let's not worry about Ze (see the discussion here.) This is not the World vs. Kasparov! We have no idea what Ze will do next, and even less of an idea what we will do next, maybe a even a power move... In this game, where pawns might be promoted to invisible duckies that eat other pieces, Ze reading the wiki is the last of our concerns.

I say we light the board aflame! Fire makes me happy, that's gay!


C7 to C6!!!!

Seconded, c7 to c6 is the way to go :)


You sunk my scrabbleship! -Zip

OMG ze rocks my world! i just ordered one of his "i like little duckies" shirts. he's the coolest guy ever! -eMu7993

Cheat! How can we hit your battleships if you keep moving them?

Arcane Jill

Jill, theres a whole set of game theory behind that. Watch the Numb3rs season 2 episode entitled "Assasin". (anon, the hard charger)


Current board position
Image:chess_zhor_26-flip.png
Image:chess_zver_26_flip.png
h1 g1 f1 e1 d1 c1 b1 a1
h2 g2 f2 e2 d2 c2 b2 a2
h3 g3 f3 e3 d3 c3 b3 a3
h4 g4 f4 e4 d4 c4 b4 a4
h5 g5 f5 e5 d5 c5 b5 a5
h6 g6 f6 e6 d6 c6 b6 a6
h7 g7 f7 e7 d7 c7 b7 a7
h8 g8 f8 e8 d8 c8 b8 a8
Image:chess_zver_26_flip.png
Image:chess_zhor_26-flip.png
Last move: 4. Nf3

Can we vote to rotate the boards to make Black at the Bottom? I'll go through the effort if the vote passes. somejeff

  • I made a quick pass at a black on bottom template for us rookies. Would somebody with fresh eyes double check and/or fix it? muyfabulosotalk
    • Looks good. mayorcjSR (although it would be best if our primary boards were kept in the style we've been using, i think its a fine idea to keep this updated.
      • I agree, this is meant as a quick and dirty viewer. All you have to do is copy and paste the one up top and change "{{Chess diagram" to "{{Chess diagram flip".
  • Excellent idea. It bothered me to see white and black on the wrong colors. bigwavedave
  • I think we should all just bow to the Template God that is muyfabuloso... very very awesome! Maybe the move discussion page should use flipped boards? Not this one, but almost all the rest, when we are evaluating the situation for black... --Gelbitalk 08:19, 28 June 2006 (PDT)
    • I vote yes on the discussion page using the flipped colors. --NotRegisteredButNamedBillMill
  • YAGGGHHHHHAAARRRRRRRRGGGHHH!!!!!...I'm praticing my shout on my power move....Murry 08:18, 28 June 2006 (PDT)

Oh please, can we flip the board and play Backgammon??? Chess makes my head hurt--but not as much as too much beer. I have a better chance with dice.

  • I thought it was supposed to be 'Queen on her colour'? If that is the case, the King and Queen of each side are on the wrong squares. I could be mistaken though.
    • No, you're thinking the king and queen are opposites. The queen is the taller piece; the picture is correct.
  • Alright, there's some moves ahead but here's my idea: Rather than Nf6, Qa4 AFTER we take his N3! He'll have to take our bishop with either P or Q, and if P that'll be best for our Q to check. We then move Bd7 to support.

OR we take his Pc4! Then we move Qc6 and keep N to guard that... Castle, Kingside is now a move option. Cuz the bear said so.

Shouting about chess! It's non-intuitive! Like ChessBoxing! I'm just shouting because I can! But with chess!
-->uhhhh folks... is it just me, or has someone ghosted Ze's King?!? - Binkley Someone deleted Ze's King! We win!I fart in your general direction!

Uhm, won't ze be able to read all our strategies?


ARGHH... time is up and it seems the knight move has won!!! So, this is where we lost the game... :P --gelbitalk 21:22, 29 June 2006 (PDT)

  • At least we won the taunting this round :) --gelbitalk 21:36, 29 June 2006 (PDT)
  • I understand your concerns, Gelbi, but I daresay that we have a chance at this game, even with the knight move... if nothing else, if he doesn't take that knight with his, we can move it into position to take his queen, and force Ze's hand.... and even if he does take our knight, we can take his knight with our pawn, and force his second knight into action.
    • He can't capture our knight .. it's [ pinned ] to his King.
  • Could the LoA send me some painkillers .. please? My head hurts .. no more 60-pli days for me .. PLEASE! ßrigaderant
    • Hehe, don't worry, you are doing well..., but I am concerned about how easily you get people on your side :) I'm leaving now, good work all fabulosos and see you guys in two weeks when we have a two pawn advantage... --gelbitalk 08:01, 30 June 2006 (PDT)ARSE!
  • The pawn in front of whites king is out of place on all of the suggested moves boards.<shouting>AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH</shouting>

Uh .. who's sending the move/taunt out to Ze? Just so I know (that I don't need to worry about it) .. ßrigaderant 21:52, 2 July 2006 (PDT)

How is the taunt picked? I feel like it's rand. -Graymon

Taunt suggestion: Ze, your board position is all blocked up, like your colon. —Ghas Phox

Question

Is it OK to speculate about Ze's next move? Or should we only do that to help decide our next move? --Neal 17:27, 3 July 2006 (PDT)

- You can do what you like .. but considering that we're pretty lousy about guessing what Ze's next move is, we're pretty much sticking to basic tactical theory .. i.e. "What happens if Ze does this" .. there may be a few that will speculate along with you .. but several of us are welcoming a few days off from tactical debate and theory. My head feels better now, thanks. ßrigaderant

Drama

Well .. that does it for me. If anyone really cares .. I may lurk a bit, but I'm tired of all the fighting and arguing that has started since serveral individuals have showed up. They manipulate, name-call, and turned something that was organized and fun into a raging uphill battle, and continue to cause more problems than not until things are the way THEY like it. I'd also like to note that they have nothing to lose, as they have not pledged a single dollar to the losing fund.

Even if we win, we end up losing. This was supposed to be a 'collaborative, fun' experience, and the few have ruined it for the some of the rest of us (Those founding individuals that spent tens of hours building this up to what it was; before they decided that they didn't like it and wanted to change). Just review the voting pages from the past and see who is no longer contributing and/or voting anymore. Read the comments about all the 'normal' non-chess and/or non-wiki afficianados that have dropped off since this has begun.

Thanks to those that tried to make this fun for everyone. Take care all. ßrigaderant 21:39, 13 July 2006 (PDT)

lol @ "tens of hours." Get over yourself, schlossrigade.

  • I came here just to blow some hot air a few moves ago, but I was so impressed by the fabulosiness of everyone that I made real comments on the moves. I'm 100% in 3 moves. I rigged it! HA! As if! Anyways, where's the fighting? Brigade had the most agressive comments out of anyone, so I don't get it. What's this about? BTW, the discussions are very cool! I can't even decide how to scratch myself, yet they (we) decide on moves, voting, ties all within the span of mere hours. V 07:53, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I always liked your comments Brigade so I'm sorry your leaving. But I did not think anyone was acting inappropriately. There's some disagreement -- it seems healthy to me. --Neal 08:33, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Pity to see him go on such a sad note. While I didn't always agree with his moves, I think he did contribute a lot. However, it's always a mistake to take things personally on this wiki ;) Relax a bit, I personally like seeing how some of the structures we started are being used and improved. --gelbitalk 09:02, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • "Collaborative and fun" is a pretty good description of the experience, but it's become pretty clear to me at least that the collaborative part was sticking in your craw. Taking your ball and going hom is just another symptom of that. Perhaps when you've had a chance to think it over you'll come back and play alongside everyone else instead of trying to be the Dungeon Master. As for all the people who have come and gone, I think that's just the nature of this sort of thing. Jeff
  • I agree with Gelib, pity. Brigade thinks I have something against him, which isn't true. Though I do think he gets far too personal and I don't think he's a particularly good chess player, but who cares! He obviously loves the game and that's makes him ok in my book. I'm sorry he takes my comments personally, they aren' intended that way. We all have to remember it's a wiki . . . no one's in control and that's what makes it fun. Kingpatzer 09:48, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
    • You don't get to say, "he gets far too personal," and then insult him. Ever heard of rising above the argument? Didn't think so. CipherSwarm 14:50, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
      • How did I insult him? Kingpatzer 10:12, 15 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I'm no chess expert, but I've enjoyed reading people's comments and learning a few things about how the game is played. Maybe some of the disagreements got a little more personal than they should have, but storming off in a huff because you didn't get your way on a few moves strikes me as childish. PTWhipplebang 09:56, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Maybe Brigade leaving is like Congdon leaving RB. Any one else notice that for a few months they were lucky to have 40 comments a show? Now they're up to 200+ a show? Mayhaps this is a publicity stunt. I think that the fun of this experiment comes from the interactions and how easily the tone can change by one person. In a community where all have equal share and no one is a clear leader (and let me tell you how glad I am that I no longer have to e-mail the moves to ze) - people are bound to have their feelings hurt. This effort is ORIGNAL! A wiki has never been used in this way before, as almost a quasi-governmental message board of sorts where collaboration is king... and I think it's rather fantastic. Brigade, you did bring much to the table, and it saddens me to see you leave on such tones. I think that everyone will agree when I say the game WILL go on - after all - there is 10 minutes of herr frank strummin' the geetar at stake here, and I'd like to see that happen. I am THRILLED that new people are coming in and shaking it up, otherwise this would get boring as all else very quickly. mayorcjSR 10:41, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Brigade, I really thought you showed leadership in the discussions, and really liked some of the moves you have suggested. But bringing up that pledge shit is really low. You say this is supposed to be 'collaborative', except some people have right to collaborate more than others? 1984 anyone? Ze didn't say anything about who could or could not participate. If you are really worried about your pledge, you should know that our play will probably suffer from your loss. Geedubber 12:07, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
    • You're right, which is why I personally spoke out against that particular course of action. I was only frustrated and upset, and spoke out of line. Thanks for the compliment in light of that statement, however. ßrigaderant 09:15, 15 July 2006 (PDT)
      • Even Kasparov versus The World had its ups and downs. It was Krush's "patient efforts in an environment which appeared almost hopelessly hostile" that gradually earned her admiration and respect (and also got the World playing as a team). Geedubber 16:01, 15 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Regardless of who's submitting moves, I'm still here and following along. I don't post much because I'm not a good chess player... Fabulosos; playing chess so I don't have to. Argonbeam3500 15:58, 14 July 2006 (CDT)
  • There's nothing better than Wiki angst. Welcome to the Internet, man, where most people, at the end of the day, are complete assholes. Those who scream loudest win out over rationality sometimes, so don't be afraid to scream back. CipherSwarm 14:47, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Jeez man, stick it out. Fight back. You've won as many arguments as you've lost and nobody wins them all. The rest of us hung in during the early moves when you dominated the discussion and the "THIS is the move" jokes were circulating. It's all good. It is fun. IMO it will be less so if you go.bobbie_macrap at me
    • If it was about losing arguements .. I wouldn't have quit. (I've lost a few and stuck around) .. let's just say 'the Spirit of the game has changed' and I've not found it to my liking. Thank you all for the kind words .. and for the unkind words .. well I'll just choose to leave those be. ßrigaderant 09:13, 15 July 2006 (PDT)
      • Brigade, you were the most vocal of anyone. You can't turn around and say it was others that were causing ploblems. You would go into every section that had a move you disagreed with and badmouth over and over why people should vote for it and completely disregard any logic behind the move. I admin a few sites, and I would have banned you long ago. But I really couldn't care less here. I had orginially come here to do what you were doing and trashing the place. So I thought it was cool. I ignored the bad stuff you were doing and actually helped out. I even submitted a move. The very move you voted for. Please, if you have something concrete, then say it. Otherwise, look in the mirror and get over it. I really like the discussions and this drama is not needed. I vote to get rid of all these comments and get back to the game. V 11:24, 15 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I'm dissapointed man, the game's not over. Towlineeh

Votes to forget the drama and get back to the game!

  1. VOTE by V 11:23, 15 July 2006 (PDT): Let's get rid of the hard charging and get back to the game! Black is in good shape.
  2. VOTE by PTWhipplebang 13:50, 15 July 2006 (PDT)

Archived shoutbox

Q: What do we do if the voting is deadlocked??? Go Fuck Ourselves?!? A: Sure... then wash your hands and come discuss it here.


YO! The detailed history hasn't been updated in days -- how are we to know which taunts have been delivered to Ze? Or did we stop taunting when we stopped emailing the move?

The board showing the current position is incorrect.

It's fixed.

I moved the drama to the dumpster. No need to have this on the main page. If anyone disagrees, you know where it is and can change it back. V 19:25, 15 July 2006 (PDT)

Hi all, I just updated the move on this page but not the move discussion page due to my poor wiki skills. I just wanted to avoid a repeat of last week's weekend debacle. It's midnight on the east coast.... Sal Mancini

Yeah, I update the flipped board and the header in the discussion. I think we're good for now. V 21:35, 16 July 2006 (PDT)

Move 14 shoutbox

Ze's current move is listed wrong at the top of the page. I don't know how to fix it. It should be e4. PTWhipplebang 10:32, 17 July 2006 (PDT)

  • There, I think I fixed it now. PTWhipplebang 10:38, 17 July 2006 (PDT)

Someone that knows math should fix the 'consensus' votes .. move 1 was 75%, not 56% ..

  • And Nd7 won by one vote. That's at least 50%. V 17:06, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
    • 20 votes we cast on 11th move. 7 votes were for Nd7. 7/20=35% 154.20.161.143 17:50, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
      • HAHA! DUH! I keep forgetting about third place and other moves. V 20:43, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Seeing that 100% beside our move will probably freak Ze out. Geedubber 21:23, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • imho, fxe4. Black's position is weak. The pawn sacrifice to open a path for rook & queen to take advantage of white's castle is worth it.
  • Nope .. fxe4 is a lossy move, response fxe4 and you're trading rooks (Qxe1 loses to Bxe1) .. the right move was dxe4 but they blew it again. Watch the game fall apart for black.
    • did you nay-sayers even read the discussion? dxc4 is completely safe, and gains us material. p.s. don't forget to sign your comments..... Geedubber 08:14, 18 July 2006 (PDT)
    • dxe4 is playable but slightly weaker than dxc4 precisely because it provides a nice file to white in the f-file. It's not a bad move, but dxc4 does more to constrain white. as Geedubber said, go read the discussion. If you think the discussion is wrong, contribute some analysis to that end! Kingpatzer 08:34, 18 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Isnt the knowlege usually brewing by now? I hope theres an episode today; the chess game is getting very interesting. Left Elbow of Ragnaros 12:08, 18 July 2006 (CST)

Notation Discussion

  • Look at the deliberation for move 15. Pawn to d5 is the same as d5 .. pawn push. Pawns can move past one another without capturing, guys. He made a valid move and you guys misunderstood. ßrigaderant 11:45, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
    • He wrote "pawn to e5". He then wrote "my mistake meant d5". We didn't screw up anything. Geedubber 11:35, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
    • That's a great point, _except_ the 7-19 show said "pawn to e5", NOT d5. We are not mind readers, but Ze is and should have been able to read our minds and tell that we in turn are not mind readers. - arc
      • "Pawn to d5" and "pawn d5" and "d5" are all synonymous. Look at the detailed history (before I quit updating it, don't know if anyone else has kept up) .. he uses the same terminology many times. He never alluded to a capture (i.e. Captures, Takes, X) .. admit your mistake and move on with the game. He's got every right to be irritated. ßrigaderant
        • He didn't say "Pawn to d5" though. He said "Pawn to e5" Geedubber 11:48, 20 July 2006 (PDT)

Move 15 Shouts

Wow .. you fools didn't account for Qa4 .. shame shame.

  • Ok. If you're so concerned about the game, you can chime in before we finish voting. And remember to sign your comments. PTWhipplebang 06:18, 19 July 2006 (PDT)
  • must be Brigade :) Sorry but we did account for Qa4. Read the discussion. Qa4 is not a threat. If you are so smart you can find out why just by looking at what our little bishop and knights can do. Kingpatzer 06:39, 19 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Sorry to disappoint ya Patz but I only lurk on the main page and the chess arena and usually to shake my head. I also sign my comments, which I haven't made in several days. ßrigaderant 11:05, 19 July 2006 (PDT)
      • Hmmm, must be someone else on a Charter DSL line in Fort Worth Texas with a chip on his shoulder. Jeff 10:03, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Um, do we get to make the taunt that Ze forgot to enter a move and forfeits a turn if he does it again?
  • He put his move under the video. I assume he means that he's taking our pawn? PTWhipplebang 11:30, 19 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Pawn to E5 was the fabuloso's last move, which is why I was cornfused. If that's what he meant, it should have read PxE5, no?
  • He hasn't really been using algebraic notation. Remember to sign your comments. PTWhipplebang 11:34, 19 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Sorry about the no signature thing - I was just wandering in trying to figure out what the move was. I don't post in the wiki otherwise.
  • Ze asked if we were using a computer. I think that might have been in response to some fritz calculations that were posted on the wiki after voting last night. They were promptly moved to the magic dumpster. I posted a comment in the show telling him as much Geedubber 11:55, 19 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Oh, ok. I was wondering what that was about. BTW, my early vote got removed last night. Oh well, it was unanimous. V 13:48, 19 July 2006 (PDT)
  • We seem to be ahead. At least it looks that way to me, although I am the worst player here. But we're not too far ahead. So this is a good time to offer to turn the board and let Ze play black while we play white. Let's add some chaos!--Neal 17:28, 19 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Its also a good time to crush Ze like a bug for his insolence. Wophugus
      • Yes, but contending that we can win the game with either black or white at this point is even more insolent. And it'd be funny. - arc
        • If you give me the certainty of crushing someone for their insolence over the chance to insolently crush someone for their insolence, I think I'll pick the sure option any day. Thats just me, though. Wophugus
  • Maybe he thought e5 was bad. The using a computer thing might have been sarcastic? Heck, I don't know. I'm so confused. V 23:55, 19 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I think we should add a request that nobody use chess programs to suggest moves on the discussion page for the next move. After all, it's pretty clear Ze isn't using one. JudiciousH 00:59, 20 July 2006 (PDT)

Message from our leader

HEY GUYS - I WANTED A PUSH NOT A TAKE... DAMMIT.

  • You couldn't move to e5 because our last move was to move to e5. What was the actual move that you wanted to make? - arc
  • And Ze, don't forget to sign your comment.--Neal 10:20, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
  • How do we know this is Ze? And where's the move list? V 16:59, 20 July 2006 (PDT)

== Okay, the new guys really need to read the edit guide. Geedubber 16:43, 26 July 2006 (PDT)

  • Or .. I could come back and lend my argumentitive self to the game once more (at least I kept things clean editing-wise while I complained and harped about moves) ... :-) .. ßrigaderant
    • WHOA .. now there's not only 'Multiple Votes' but 'Anti-voting?' .. jeez .. and the moves are getting worse too .. n/m .. i won't edit or contribute .. it's gotten to be a mess in there. ßrigaderant
      • Then stop complaining about others contributions. arc
      • If you think the moves are really that bad Brigade, then we could use another voice. Jes ter23

Move 21 shouts

  • I leave for one day, and THIS Qg5 is the move that everyone came up with??? Holy crap, batman! It's like one of the worst moves out of all the possibilities. Wait, let me guess... Bc1 for white (or possibly Qc1). Next time, let's try and make a move that isn't forced for white unless it gets us a real advantage, eh? I'll shut up if I'm wrong which is usually 100% of the time. V 08:38, 28 July 2006 (PDT)
  • This is hardly a mess, my friends. If either Bc1 or Qc1, then f4 - depending on Ze's next move rook comes out to Rf6 followed by Rg6 and Ze's in huge trouble king-side. The beauty of it is there isn't a lot he can do about it, because his pawn chain, coupled with f4, restricts diagonal movement. Attacking his pawn chain at the base is far more advantageous than attacking the middle, isn't it? Otis 09:40, 28 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Bring it on, Hosea. Otis 12:50, 28 July 2006 (PDT)

A Bold New Strategy

For our next move I propose we hollow out one of our horsies and then, after it's dark, have all the other pieces climb up into it and hide. Tomorrow Ze will see that we have abandoned the field and left him a trophy, which he will take back to his home row (which will change all of our pawns into queens). I haven't played out this line in any detail, but I'm sure it'll catch him off guard.--Neal 09:45, 21 July 2006 (PDT)

  1. VOTE --Decoder
  2. VOTE by wgolds47
  3. VOTE by 69.230.60.248 22:19, 21 July 2006 (PDT): its just crazy enough to work!
  4. VOTE by mayorcjSR 13:10, 22 July 2006 (PDT)
  5. VOTE by MikeRapin 14:11, 25 July, 2006 (EDT): Tro-jans! Tro-jans! Tro-jans!
  6. VOTE by WythDryden: This is definately the way to go... Why hadn't we thought of this before?

Changing the Stakes

This is kind of minor, but did anyone else notice that "if we lose" in the stakes was changed to "when we lose"? Who did that? PTWhipplebang 08:21, 31 July 2006 (PDT)

  • I lack the motivation to look it up, but it's pretty damn funny. arc
  • I lack the perspective not to look it up. The change was made last Wednesday by 69.19.14.31, which maps to the NE States. Prolly not Ze, he has used 64.105.72.184 to post here (although he's used other IPs as well). Deflective

King to H1? He's stalling, or setting up to hope for a stalemate... Argonbeam3500

Multiple Move Debate

Um. Neither of you guys are any good. I'd put you at 1230, tops.


-From a Girl (who most certainly could easily kick both of you guy's asses. At the same time.)

  • Who are you talking about/to? PTWhipplebangSR! 11:09, 13 August 2006 (PDT)
  • And I for one believe that no one should do anything they aren't good at. How could it possibly be fun then? arc

I assume since Ze's move matches the above line, that our move will be Rxg1+. If people still want to suggest/debate other moves we can do that too. PTWhipplebangSR! 12:03, 11 August 2006 (PDT)

Ze doesn't like us thinking so he doesn't have to. He ignored us completely. Isn't Kxg1 forced? Let's put it in the move list along with hxg6. That way, we're at least one move ahead. Actually, we need a way to suggest to Ze to play at least one move further. I think making his move for him would be disrespectful even if it is forced. Oh well. I think he's done thinking. V1 13:47, 11 August 2006 (PDT)

  • Personally, I don't see what's disrespectful about having the move list reflect that a move is forced. It could get us back to the game a day sooner. JudiciousH
  • As far as I'm concerned, we need to delete the moves past today, and call it good. Forcing Ze to do any move is stupid (other than within rules), and should be game over. [bkeyport]
    • We're not forcing him to do anything. We're just letting him know what our reactions would be to the moves we think he might take. It's just an opportunity to speed up the game a bit. As for Ze's next move, there's only one move he can make that gets him out of check, so, yes, that one is forced. Also, we voted on this already. We discussed it on Wednesday. PTWhipplebangSR! 14:51, 11 August 2006 (PDT)
      • I still don't feel that's right, so I've pulled my pledges, and will no longer participate. [BKeyport]
        • That's fine if you don't want to play anymore, but you should know that we decided to do this before the server failure. It was pointed out to us that this type of conditional play is very common in Correspondence Chess as a way to make the game move along a little faster. This was in no way meant to be a slight to Ze or to insult anyone. PTWhipplebangSR! 19:08, 13 August 2006 (PDT)
  • What is BKeyport going on about exactly? I don't understand what the problem is. Anyone is still free to suggest alternate lines, but the reason we have submitted these is because they are so obvious. There's just no point in waiting to submit basically forced moves. V1 19:15, 13 August 2006 (PDT)
    • I think he thinks we're punishing Ze because the server crashed, which is ludicrous. PTWhipplebangSR! 19:18, 13 August 2006 (PDT)
      • HAHA That's funny. V1 09:26, 14 August 2006 (PDT)
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