Talk:Fabuloso Friday 2/Fabuloso Chess/Move11

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detailed history | current 3d view
Ze Us consensus
1 d4 d5 56%
2 c4 e6 66%
3 Nc3 Bb4 48%
4 Nf3 Nf6 82%
5 e3 Ne4 56%
6 Qc2 f5 62%
7 Bd3 O-O 83%
8 O-O b6 61%
9 a3 Bxc3 57%
10 bxc3 Ba6 65%
11 Ne5 Nd7 37%
12 Nc6 Qf6 89%
13 f3 Nd6 100%
14 e4 dxc4 100%
15 Be2 e5 100%
16 d5 Nb8 55%
17 Nb4 Bb7 93%
18 a4 a5 100%
19 Na2 Nd7 50%
20 Ba3 Rac8 50%
21 Rab1 Qg5 60%
22 Kh1 fxe4 61%
23 fxe4 Qg6 89%
24 Rxf8+ Rxf8 100%
25 Bxd6 Rf2 100%
26 Rg1 cxd6 100%
27 Qd1 Nf6 73%
28 Bf3 Nxe4 93%
29 Nc1 Rd2 53%
30 Bxe4 Rxd1 100%
31 Bxg6 Rxg1+ 100%
32 Kxg1 hxg6 100%
33 Resign ---

Voting Closed (Nd7 confirmed. No more tie.)

Today's Suggested Moves will be posted after Ze's broadcast, and the voting polls will open @7PM EDT and close at 12AM EDT, in order to give time for enough deliberation before the votes are cast. Don't have a username/Id yet? Get one here! and take some credit for your contributions!

  • People casting more than 1 (ONE) vote below will forfeit ALL VOTES. Make your choice and stick with it. Don't vote for 3 separate moves.
    • Says who? I don't remember there being any discussion or agreement about the voting system. Moreover I can't think of any reason to want to disallow voting for more than one move. Jeff 20:56, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
      • It was established in the beginning. ßrigaderant
        • I don't disbelieve you, Brigade, but where in the beginning did we decide this? I've checked back through the wiki and can't find it. I'm also not sure what the problem is with changing it. Do you think multiple votes are less representative of what the group wants?bobbie_macrap at me
          • with multiple votes we're more likely to get a move that everyone is happy with to some degree, compared to single votes where it's the one move we're forced to support against 2,3, 10 others. Kingpatzer 06:47, 13 July 2006 (PDT)

'The move' bitch fest

I don't know how you guys feel, but the arguments about our moves and the adaptive strategies we're forced to try as a result of playing collectively are making this the most fun game of chess I've ever experienced.

On sending the move

This can be deleted whenever - but it turns out that we don't need to be worried about sending Ze our move.

e-mail from Ze

:)don't have to send this to me - I look at the wiki board...that's where we are playing after all :)

To Answer the Question

yes, Ze is reading the wiki, at midnight, someone, anyone, just needs to update the board with our move on the main chess page.

Where's the main page? V 21:12, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

HAHA 15 min late. Is midnight a HARD deadline? Tomorrow's show will be interesting. I hope Ze was out getting sh*tface or something. Man, a beer would be so much better.

I've updated the board late .. I used to rely on someone else to E-mail off the move for us. Don't sweat it .. if it's up a bit late should be no huge deal, but just try and get it up as soon as possible. ßrigaderant

Vote For More Than One Move!

I can see no reason to vote for one and only one move when there are multiple moves that seem nearly equal. It is well known that in elections with more than two options, single-vote winner-take-all does a very poor job of representing the desires of the voters. Voting for more than one move is also known as Approval Voting. Another alternative with be Condorcet but that involves a lot more work.

  • We need to settle this now. One vote or many?
    • Voting for more than one move was never prohibited AFAICT. Range Voting would be another interesting alternative but that would be a distinct departure from what has gone on before. Jeff
    • Approval voting: Brilliant! Besides, who wants to be the hard charging vote police? I vote for multiple votes. voodooboy 21:10, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
      • Actually .. voting for one move was established around move 1 or move 2 of the game, before you came along Jeff. ßrigaderant 23:42, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
        • Brigade appearantly is standing up to be counted as the hard charger in question :) Kingpatzer 10:04, 13 July 2006 (PDT)
    • I vote for more than one vote as well. It will probably reduce the number of these ties we're having. 64.7.149.152
    • I vote for only one vote. More than one vote could lead to complete chaos. 64.7.149.152
      • i'm so glad i read that slowly enough to get it. : )
  • More than one vote? Ok, I vote both for and against this idea. See! Useful! He who says zonk 06:37, 13 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Haha, I posted before reading the other comments and then realised what the above two are saying. Curse it! :P He who says zonk 06:46, 13 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Do we only get one vote to vote for multiple votes or not? This seems silly. If it was decided already, let's stick to single votes. -christian 09:25, 13 July 2006 (PDT)


Use the following tags to help suggest moves, and remember if you want to throw up an example speculative board in the discussion, please refer to the Edit Guide on how to properly format it.

 <!-- ==Speculative Move== -->

 <!-- REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD

  REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD -->

 <!-- MAKE CERTAIN YOU ADD A COMMENT TO JUSTIFY THIS POSITION-->

{{clear}}

Just follow the instructions, and completely delete those lines .. and don't forget to replace 'Speculative Move' with the actual move name. Also bear in mind that anything after the clear tag won't be visible, so don't enter any text underneath it (unless you're adding another section)

Cut and paste the following to vote:

# '''VOTE''' by ~~~~: add a comment! 

Strategy Discussion

Current Position
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last Move: 11. Ne5 ...

Contents


  • Why did Ze put the knight there? The only two plausible reasons I can see are to cover something later (f7,g6) or to cover something now (c4). When we determine the purpose of his move, or a plausible facimile thereof, we can act intelligently against it. -AnonHC
    • There are multiple reasons. First, it puts pressure on f7, which is the weakness in our king defence. Secondly, it temporarily pins our queen's knight. -- Pseudonym 17:54, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
    • That is the sort of move most good chess players see immediately as "good" even if they don't see quite how to make use of it immediately. The knight controls some key squares in black's territory, it is hard for use to get rid of without weakening our position, etc. He doesn't need a good reason beyond those, really. Kingpatzer 18:33, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

Suggested Move Summary

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 Qe8
Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 dxc4
Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 c6
Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 c5
Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 Ng5
Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 Nd7


Speculative Move Discussion

I put in two responses to Ne5 because I think that's White's best move. Jeff 10:21, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

Actually .. I count three. Kindly remove two of them please.

  • That comment is left over from this morning when I copy-n-pasted all the boilerplate over before Ze had made his move. I was guessing that he would play Ne5 and I put in the first two possible responses for us. However, I assume that you are referring to the fact that I have voted for more than one move. AFAIK, there's been no agreement, rule or even suggestion that voting for more than one move should be discouraged or disallowed. I can think of several arguments in favor of encouraging it, especially in situations like this where there are so many viable moves. Jeff 20:46, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
  • You certainly are entitled to your opinion .. but there is only one vote per move. Period. There have been many discussions on the voting (including no voting for non-pledges like yourself .. but that was shot down) .. this is the system. Multiple votes can only be used to either abuse the system or confuse people. ßrigaderant
    • multiple votes can't be used to abuse the system, and I'm not sure how it would confuse people you'll have to explain that one. You could not vote for the same move more than once, but if there are 3 moves out of 5 that you support, you could vote once for each of those 3 moves. When dealing with multi-variant choices, multiple voting is usually more conducive to consensus building than single voting. Kingpatzer 06:51, 13 July 2006 (PDT)


Qe8

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 Qe8

This move supports a later move to Nc6. Jeff 10:21, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

  • If you want Nc6 to pressure his advanced knight, I think that 11. Ne5 Nd7 works better, as it keeps tempo on our side. No free move for you, Ze! 64.7.149.152
    • Or we could have Bb2 last move .. supporting our move this turn to Nc6 .. oh waitasec .. n/m.
  • 11. ... Nd7 looks like it loses a pawn (see discussion below). I realize this is a quiet move but it seems like the easiest way for us to safely bring out the Knight. I see White responding with either a4 or cxd5 (see below).Jeff 16:38, 12 July 2006 (PDT)


Possible Board Positions

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move:
12. a4 Nc6
13. Ba3 Rf6


Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move:
12. cxd5 Bxd3
13. Nxd3 exd5

Votes

  1. VOTE by Jeff 17:32, 12 July 2006 (PDT): Promotes best development for Black
  2. VOTE by Kingpatzer 17:57, 12 July 2006 (PDT) : I played through a few lines and I like what I see. Some c6 lines get more complex than we'd like, this is clean and simple. I'm not sure it's objectively stronger, but it is solid enough
  3. VOTE by Pseudonym 18:01, 12 July 2006 (PDT) : This looks good to me, too.
  4. VOTE by SalMancini I like it. Especially since it has not been brought up until now in previous discussions.
  5. VOTE by ram11: good defense move against Ke6 and Qa4
  6. VOTE by Bairdsy: This looks fine. Ive looked at a few lines and nothing strikes me as overly bad for us.


c6

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 c6
  • this move stabalizes our center and the pawn structure even more, and removes any advantage white would have at liquidating the center at this time. For example 12. cxd5 Bxd3 13. Qxd3 cxd5 is perfectly ok for black. Because it takes the sting out of any queen-side or center activity on white's part, it allows us to look at potentially moving into the king side with our pieces. For example 12. a4 Qh4 13. a5 dxc4 14. Nxc4 Nd7 Kingpatzer 12:01, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
    • 12. a4 Qh4 13. Ba3 what is our response? What is the reason Ze wouldn't do this?

64.7.149.152

  • 13. ... Re8 strikes me as the proper response there. And Ze may well go for this line.
    • What if after Qh4 he moves back to 13. Nf3?
      • Qf6 look playable to me then. ( Or we can play Qd8 and see if Ze wants a draw ) Kingpatzer 12:54, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
      • 13. Nf3 Qh5 is pretty good too. Jeff 15:09, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I like this move. I like 12. a4 Qc7 better than 12. a4 Qh4. I think it's ends up being 13. Ba3 Re8 in either case. Jeff 15:07, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

Votes

  1. VOTE by Jeff 17:32, 12 July 2006 (PDT): Promotes good pawn structure for Black. I like Qe8 better but I'll support this one too.



dxc4

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 dxc4

Leads to a long string of more-or-less obligatory moves which leaves Black in an OK position. Jeff 10:21, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

  • 12. Nxc4 Bxc4 13. Bxc4 points his bishop at our e-file pawn. What's the response? Or were you looking at 12. Bxc4 Bxc4 13. Nxc4? 64.7.149.152
  • 12. Bxe4 fxe4 doesn't look that good to me for black. Kingpatzer 12:45, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
  • add 13. Qxe4 to that and he's attacking our a-file rook.
  • Specuative question - what about dxc4 then Q-c5? I know Im eager to go in for the kill. Is that a hard charger move? -mm


c5

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 c5
  • a more agressive line with the same idea as the c6 move. if white chooses to blow things up with 12. cxd5 Bxd3 13. Qxd3 Qxd5 14. f3 cxd4 15. exd4 Nc5 16. dxc5 Qxe5 provides for an interesting game, with plenty of dangers for both sides (though it probably favores whit slightly) Kingpatzer 12:51, 12 July 2006 (PDT)


Ng5

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 Ng5
  • here's an interesting try. The idea being, if we're allowed to do whatever we want, we're going to take that knight to f7 to attack the e5 knight and then pull out the other knight to c6. Reality will of course rear her ugly head and we won't get to do whatever we want since white gets to move as well, but going down teh various lines don't seem to leave us looking bad Kingpatzer 13:34, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

Nd7

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 Nd7
  • I'd like to attack this knight now. It's a strong defender for ze's kingside and I'd like to see it gone.
  • We need to put pressure on that center white knight for sure. It's having a free ride in the center right now. Moving the queen basically renders our rook and knight stuck in the corner. Anything in the center right now involves exchanges which will free up the center for white. Let's try and get more pieces ready to join the fight. This move not only develops a piece, but attacks the center. V 14:14, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I like the reason for doing it, but not the move itself. I'm looking at 12. cxd5 Bxd3 13. Nxd3 exd5 14. Nf4. Because of the N on d7, we can't retake the d5 pawn with the Queen, and that leaves us vulnerable to some trickery. Right now we have an immediate issue of dealing with Ne6 forking rook and queen, but even after we deal with that, f3 will result in the loss of either the f or d pawn. Kingpatzer 14:46, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Wow .. you're like 0/3 on predicting lines and moves .. how about we ignore your magic crystal ball for a while and see how the game goes? If we had moved Bb2 (the smart move) instead of Ba3 (the situation we're in) we could have moved Nc6 or Nd7 without any of those vulnerabilities (ironically enough, the cxd5 you've been 'predicting' for all 3 moves and used to justify your false positions). Plus, he'll want to retake with the Queen (13. Qxd3 not Nxd3)in that line above, it's not worth advancing a Knight to e5 (an advanced post threatening our King, and covered by pawns) only to retreat him on a recapture at this point in the game, it'd be wasting tempo that we've given back to him, and I don't see Ze doing that. ßrigaderant
      • you're an angry little fella aren't ya? First, go back and read the discussion of BxN and you'll find that I looked at exactly the position we're in. Second, we move to a6, not a3, and lastly cxd5 has been the critical line to look at since it's been possible precisely because it will fundamentally alter the pawn structure and any plausible pawn shifts need to be examined carefully because changes in pawn structure confer long-lasting positional advantages/disadvantages. Lastly, stop taking the fact that your move lost on votes personally, get over it already. Kingpatzer 14:59, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
        • One last note .. don't let Kingpatzer scare you out of (or into) a move. There's no issue of his knight forking us .. considering that it will take at least 3 moves (many of which are unsafe) to get him to e3 (show us a line about the immediate threat) .. oh and that recapture on d5 would have been with the queen .. not the king .. and there's nothing personal about it .. I just don't like seeing people (with nothing on the line, where's YOUR pledge) try to falsely scare and/or manipulate people. But it's cute that I'm a 'angry little fella' .. maybe that'll be my new LoA name. I should go work on my powermove. I've said my piece .. I'm done with the debates. ßrigaderant
          • when I say " now have the immediate issue" i'm talking about at that point in my analysis. *sheesh* Kingpatzer 15:12, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
            • You two should just get real drunk and punch the hell out of each other for about five minutes. Then see you are both very good at chess, but are uncomfortable when it’s not played your way. It is important to note that the worst thing to happen is we buy Ze a book. It’s frustrating, yet not worth getting frustrated over. You’re both good people trying to look out for everyone else, but it’s OK if we don’t win. - Graymon 65.190.198.224 22:39, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
  • We do need to develop our last piece, and this would be the best way to do it. I'll vote for this move later. ßrigaderant* We do need to develop our last piece, and this would be the best way to do it. I'll vote for this move later. ßrigaderant
  • Before anyone supports this move I suggest they should look at the diagram below and answer the question: "How should Black save his d pawn while avoiding getting his Rook and Queen forked?". Jeff 15:59, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
    • 14. Nf4 Qf6 .. or Qe7 .. both bring our queen out to play, and Qe7 allows her access to both sides of the board .. may still lose a pawn, but I find it amusing that both Bb2 or Bd6 (before we traded it) would have alleviated either of those threats .. but I digress. Eggs broken. ßrigaderant
      • It would lose a pawn, but it would hem in white's bishop rendering it useless. His pieces' mobility would be severely crippled. I'd trade a pawn if it means your opponent is crippled any day. The move to follow with is Re8. After he takes pawn, Nf6 with discovered double attack on white knight.


After 12 cxd5 .....
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move:
11. Ne5 Nd7
12. cxd5 Bxd3
13. Nxd3 exd5
14. Nf4

VOTES

  1. VOTE by V 17:23, 12 July 2006 (PDT): Develop and attack center.
  2. VOTE by PTWhipplebang 18:28, 12 July 2006 (PDT): I like putting pressure on his knight.
  3. VOTE by Reagank 18:32, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
  4. VOTE by ßrigaderant 18:43, 12 July 2006 (PDT) : Must .. develop .. pieces ..
  5. VOTE by bobbie_macrap at me
  6. VOTE by Lordsah 20:44, 12 July 2006 (PDT): getting the knight going is better than deploying the queen
  7. VOTE by SaintPeter 21:01, 12 July 2006 (PDT): Naughty Knights!

Rf6

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 Rf6
  • Crazy thought. This move plus 12. ... Rh6 forces his knight back to f3 to prevent Qh4 and a filed queen and rook on h.
    • Crazy, yes. Effective, no. Too early to advance our Rook, and it makes it a target. We'll just have to move it again later and this move will be wasted. Plus, it's too restrictive. ßrigaderant
  • it's actually hard to see how this is immediately bad for black. 12. f3 seems like the most logical try, so something like 12. f3 Nd6 13. cxd5 Bxd3 14. Qxd3 exd5 15. c4 dxc4 16. Nxc4 Kh8 17. Ne5 Nd7 . . . and it looks fine for black. Does anyone see a reason to object to this move beyond the fact that it's counter-intuitive? Kingpatzer 14:54, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
  • The potential skewer Bg5 would be a bitch ... and that pawn center will break up in a flurry of exchanges .. winning a rook (for a bishop) .. it'll be a future concern/target .. ßrigaderant
    • Oh yea .. the 'line' .. after Nxc3 (following the 'infernal cxd5' thread) .. (y). e4 fxe4 (y+1). Ng4 fxg4 (y+2). Bg5 pins our rook to our queen .. at least losing the rook. (BTW - used 'y' in lieu of move numbers .. because it can happen anytime and I'm too lazy to look up the latest theory) ßrigaderant
    • in order to make that skewer happen, white has to open the f file that allows Rxf1+ and there is no longer any skewer since the rook isn't there any more. I can't find a way to get the white bishop to g5 to pin rook to queen that doesn't involve either black playing like a moron or white giving away the game. Kingpatzer 20:36, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
      • Moot point (move was already voted down) .. but white doesn't have to do a damn thing about the f-file to skewer. Just get the e-pawn off e3 and it's one bishop move away. Look at the board. Dark bishop has a straight shot to g5 .. ßrigaderant
        • setup a board in the arena and show me Kingpatzer 06:57, 13 July 2006 (PDT)

VOTES

  1. VOTE by mayorcjSR 17:16, 12 July 2006 (PDT) : Just crazy enough to work!
  2. VOTE by Jeff 17:32, 12 July 2006 (PDT): Nothing wrong with this move. I like Qe8 better but I'll support this one too.
  3. VOTE by bobbie_macrap at me
  4. VOTE by animegodSR 17:16, 12 July 2006 (PDT) : I think me likey.


Qd6

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 Qd6
  • sorta the same idea behind moving Nd7. but with less drama. Geedubber 14:53, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
  • this isn't bad at all, but can lead to some very sharp lines. I kind of like the resulting positions. Most critical is probably again started with 12. cxd5 Bxd3 13. Nxd3 exd5 14. c4 Nd7 15. cxd5 Nef6 and we should be ok if we're carefull. Kingpatzer 15:10, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Hmmm, I just added a vote for this move but now I'm having second thoughts. 12. cxd5 does lead to some very nice positions for Black but 12. a4 leads to some hard-to-defend pawns for Black. Gives us a lot of initiative though so it might be worth it. I'll have to ponder it a bit more. Jeff 20:05, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
  • it would probably work out something like 12. a4 Nd7 13. Ba3 c5 14. f3 or Nxd7. I think a4 is actually a weaker move than cxd5, but both would make this a very exciting game. Geedubber

VOTES

  1. VOTE by Geedubber 19:26, 12 July 2006 (PDT) :Well i suggested it didn't I?
  2. VOTE by Jeff 20:00, 12 July 2006 (PDT): I don't know why I overlooked this move before. It's a little risky but it's definitely our most exciting option.


f4

Speculative Move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Speculative Move: 11. Ne5 f4
  • just advance the pawn. threatens pawn at e3, Ze must either take our pawn immediately (and shake up his pawn structure), or face some piece exchanges that eventually kill his rook and leave his king exposed Jes5199 15:44, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Right, but that also allows him to follow by e3xf4 - giving him a free protector for his knight. Good thought, i don't know about the consequences.
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