Talk:Fabuloso Friday 2/Fabuloso Chess/Move13

From zefrank

Jump to: navigation, search
detailed history | current 3d view
Ze Us consensus
1 d4 d5 56%
2 c4 e6 66%
3 Nc3 Bb4 48%
4 Nf3 Nf6 82%
5 e3 Ne4 56%
6 Qc2 f5 62%
7 Bd3 O-O 83%
8 O-O b6 61%
9 a3 Bxc3 57%
10 bxc3 Ba6 65%
11 Ne5 Nd7 37%
12 Nc6 Qf6 89%
13 f3 Nd6 100%
14 e4 dxc4 100%
15 Be2 e5 100%
16 d5 Nb8 55%
17 Nb4 Bb7 93%
18 a4 a5 100%
19 Na2 Nd7 50%
20 Ba3 Rac8 50%
21 Rab1 Qg5 60%
22 Kh1 fxe4 61%
23 fxe4 Qg6 89%
24 Rxf8+ Rxf8 100%
25 Bxd6 Rf2 100%
26 Rg1 cxd6 100%
27 Qd1 Nf6 73%
28 Bf3 Nxe4 93%
29 Nc1 Rd2 53%
30 Bxe4 Rxd1 100%
31 Bxg6 Rxg1+ 100%
32 Kxg1 hxg6 100%
33 Resign ---

Voting CLOSED!!! (Nd6 wins)

Today's Suggested Moves have been posted, and the voting polls will open Saturday @7PM EDT and close at Sunday 12AM EDT, in order to give time for enough deliberation before the votes are cast. Don't have a username/Id yet? Get one here! and take some credit for your contributions!

Remember to check back even if you've already cast your vote! .. there's still some disagreement between potential moves .. and analysis will most likely continue up until Sunday night when the polls close. It's also not too late to submit a vote for another move that has not been evaluated yet .. (although it looks like we have most of the best move options available, people can always miss things).


  • (very) Rough draft of the Fabuloso Chess Edit Guide is now up and located here


Use the following tags to help suggest moves, and remember if you want to throw up an example speculative board in the discussion, please refer to the Edit Guide on how to properly format it.

 <!-- ==Speculative Move== -->

 <!-- REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD

  REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD -->

 <!-- MAKE CERTAIN YOU ADD A COMMENT TO JUSTIFY THIS POSITION-->

{{clear}}

Just follow the instructions, and completely delete those lines .. and don't forget to replace 'Speculative Move' with the actual move name. Also bear in mind that anything after the clear tag won't be visible, so don't enter any text underneath it (unless you're adding another section)

Voting Instructions

Cut and paste the following to vote

# '''VOTE''' by ~~~~: add a comment! 
  • You may vote on as many moves as you like, but only one vote per move.
  • When voting closes, the move with the most votes wins.
  • If there is a tie, whoever tallies the votes breaks the tie.

Strategy Discussion

Current board position (flip me)
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last move: 13. f3

Contents



Please take the time to familiarize yourself with some common middlegame tactics as well.

Also, please don't be too hesitant to suggest your own move in this section. Just use * to begin a line and add your idea, even if you aren't familiar with notation, or don't feel comfortable updating the boards/suggestions yourself, there are plenty of us that will be more than willing to set them up for you (and keep everything organized) ├črigaderant

  • I think we should consider the possiblity that Ze is going to move back Ne5 at some point after protecting e5 with an f4 move. This would force us to Nxe5 lest risk him forking our Queen and Rook. He would then probably respond with nxe5, again forcing us to move our Queen. Maybe I'm just inexperienced in chess, but it doesn't seem good that he forced our queen to move once, it seems to mean he is in control of the game for now. Update: I posted this before he decided on f3 (17:39 14 July 2006) and am reposting it here, where I hope it is more appropriatly placed. He may be just cautiously advancing to this point...Threating our knight, forcing us to move it out of the way for some reason. In any case, as I said above, it doesn't seem good that he is forcing us to move around. We need to retake control of the game somehow. Esmaul 05:55, 15 July 2006 (EST)



Suggested Move Summary

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Nd6
Suggested Move: dxc4
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: dxc4
Anti-Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: 13. .. Ng5

dxc4


Suggested Move: dxc4
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move:dxc4
  • Offer a trade for for his bishop. Geedubber 12:25, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
    • I like this move. It looks like it'll set up a lot of options for us in the next 2 moves or so. As far as I can see, this should have positive results for us. Of course, I don't know a whole helluva lot about it, but that's my $.02. PTWhipplebang 12:30, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • after 13. .. dxc4 14. Bxe4 fxe4 15. Qxe4 our pawn structure is hosed and we've gotten no real compensation for it. 15. Bb7 doesn't really matter much because Ne7+ allows the queen to take our bishop. and a coming e4 push will not only allow white's bishop out of it's pen, it'll fix our isolated pawn as a target. I really dislike this move for what it does to our pawns. Kingpatzer 12:33, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
    • You mean trade not take. We will get a knight from that exchange. Geedubber 12:42, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
      • correct. Sorry for the imprecise language. But I still don't like the resulting pawn formation. Kingpatzer 12:45, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Yeah, This move seems to give the center and the initiative to White. Our one well-developed piece goes away and our remaining bishop and knight have nowhere good to go. I think the best we can do after 15. Qxe4 is something lame like Qf7 to let our knight out. Jeff 12:52, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Just from personal experience... if you have a piece that is being attacked, doing the same to the other player usually backfires because they have tempo. V 12:50, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Hmm.. Why is the likely future position bad? with Bb7 we can pin the knight to his queen. If Ze moves his queen, his knight is ours for free, if not we can cover the future Bxc6 with Nb8. Only option for Ze is to push d5 which completely hoses his pawn structure and lets us choose if we wish to trade the bishop or not. [Anonymous]
    • good question. Bb7 does seem to pin the knight to the queen, but it is an illusion! Ne7+ forces us to take the knight with the queen or move the king. In any case, after that move, Ze is free to take the bishop with his queen or move the queen away. But what should really bother us is the lone e pawn. A pawn that is isolated from other pawns is hard to defend and an becomes an easy target. Our lone e-pawn in this position would fall eventually, and that would probably be enough to cost us the game. Kingpatzer 14:20, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
      • Not to nitpick, but do you mean Ze is free to take the Rook with his queen? -christian 15:29, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
        • the other rook would capture his queen Geedubber 18:59, 14 July 2006 (PDT)


Likely future position
Doesn't look too good to me. Jeff
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
13. ... dxc4 14. Bxe4 fxe4 15. Qxe4

Voting

  1. VOTE by Geedubber 16:18, 15 July 2006 (PDT) : This move is good too. I will always cast a vote for the most exciting move.


Qh4


Suggested Move: Qh4
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Qh4
  • We cover the knight. Our queen isnt directly threatened. If he moves g2 to threaten the queen we take the pawn, pawn takes knight, queen takes pawn/check. Either he moves the king or we trade queens. This is a very aggressive. Its maybe a little risky. -AnonHC
    • I'm pretty sure that no matter what we do here we lose at least a piece for pawn. 13. .. Qh4 14. cxd5 Bxd3 15. Qxd3 exd5 16. fxe4 fxe4 15 Rxf8+ Rxf8 18. Qe2 . . . Does anyone see a better line that doesn't result in a loss of material? Kingpatzer 14:26, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Why does he cxd5? He is playing defensively, and has not yet given away points for a net gain two steps down the line, has he? (Using the piece-point heuristic).
  • No he hasn't. Indeed he's made some bad moves. But we have to examine his BEST POSSIBLE RESPONSE. We can't count on Ze to make less than the best move in order to make our moves good. This move gives away a piece of Ze responds to it properly, that makes it a bad move on our part. Kingpatzer 14:49, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I don't see why this is so complicated to analyze. At best it seems to trade a Knight for a pawn directly: 14. fxe4 fxe4. That would open White up a bit but I can't see any way for Black to exploit it. Jeff 15:38, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Second that. Just bad. TtT 17:26, 14 July 2006 (PDT)


Nd6


Suggested Move: Nd6
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: 13. f3 Nd6


  • Seems like an obvious course of action. Not sure if I think it's the best yet. Jeff 12:15, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I see nothing better yet, but I'm not done looking. It's the perfect sort of chess move, obvious, simple, and clearly solid. Kingpatzer 12:29, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • f3 was expected eventually. This is the expected response. I like it. Two knights attacking the center! V 12:41, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
  • some possible lines: 14. e4 dxe4 15. fxe4 e5 16. Qb3 Kh8 17. Qa4 Bb7 ; 14. cxd5 Bxd3 15. Qxd3 exd5 when I'm not really sure what the heck white does ; 14. c5 Bxb3 15. Qxd3 bxc5 16. Rb1 a5 .... in all of these black looks really good to me. Kingpatzer 12:45, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
    • I've been looking at this. He's going to have a LOT of pressure on our black f pawn. Getting his pawn in front of his bishop and queen would be cool for blocking, but how long can we stop the pressure on f? I still see a balanced game. Just don't like being on the short end of a pileup of what 3-4 pieces on each side for this one square. V 13:15, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
      • The f pawn is going to be a thorn in our side for a while I think. We can try to use it for our advantage to provide an outpost for our knights, but ultimately we're going to probably want to try and force a trade for an e-pawn with it. Kingpatzer 13:18, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
        • He's gunning for the h pawn. If he gets there, it'll be a serious pain because his knight is in checking position. We need to figure a way to reinforce our f pawn and maybe put some pressure on his knight. Whatever we do on this move, I think in future moves f and h pawns are priorities as well as getting rid of his knight from where it is now. V 13:46, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
          • I have no real concerns about the h pawn at this point. While he's certainlly lined up on that diagonal, our own bishop on a6 restrains him a great deal. I agree we have to be aware of the potential there, but I don't see a need to focus on it simply because he can't directly attack it and has no way to break things open as of now. The f pawn is of more concern, we have to be very aware of that weakness every move and make sure we're not doing anything that jeapordizes our ability to maintain that pawn. All that said, I think this move does in fact present no problems for either our f or h pawn. At least that I can see. Kingpatzer 14:08, 14 July 2006 (PDT)

Voting

  1. VOTE by -87 15:27, 14 July 2006 (PDT): Because I want us to do this move.
  2. VOTE by Jeff 15:46, 14 July 2006 (PDT): Not sure why polls have to stay closed until Saturday night. I can't see any other move worth voting for.
  3. VOTE by Sal Mancini I don't see any other good moves.
  4. VOTE by Geedubber 21:11, 14 July 2006 (PDT) : I hereby dub this move "the Knights Akimbo".
  5. VOTE by HelloMike 00:39, 15 July 2006 (PDT) : I might not be around on the weekend so I'd like to pre-vote for this one. Everything else has us moving backwards, and this is solid.
  6. VOTE by Otis 01:33, 15 July 2006 (PDT): looks good to me
  7. VOTE by V 11:04, 15 July 2006 (PDT): I'm in.
  8. VOTE by Kingpatzer 11:17, 15 July 2006 (PDT) : and yet again I have only one move to vote for now that we have multiple voting which I also voted for .. vote vote vote vote vote vote ...
  9. VOOT by Jes5199 12:11, 15 July 2006 (PDT) : Ze, please stop forcing us to kick your ass.
  10. VOTE by PTWhipplebang 17:56, 15 July 2006 (PDT): I suppose this makes the most sense.
  11. VOTE by -christian 01:38, 16 July 2006 (PDT): Solid move.
  12. VOTE by JudiciousH 17:55, 16 July 2006 (PDT)

Nb8

  • what about Nb8? If he takes our knight at e4 we can take his knight on c6. It also may lead to a queen fork. Jes ter23
  • nope. this fails because after Nb8 white will win pieces. 14. Nxb8 (attacking our bishop) so wen can either take the knight with a rook and loose our knight to the pawn (we're down two knights to his one) or we can move our knight and he takes the bishop (down two bishops) Either way, it's bad Kingpatzer 12:50, 14 July 2006 (PDT)


Bad Move Ng5


Anti-Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
bad Move: 13. .. Ng5
  • here's a non-suggestion. This looks good and I almost missed how this little move could lose black a pawn. First, 14. cxd5 Bxd3 15. Qxd3 exd5 is all more or less forced, giving us:
Anti-Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
bad line after: 15. .. exd5
  • now, 16. Qb5 threatens the d pawn, so white has to move teh queen back someplace so 16. .. Qe6, now white can play 17. Qxd5!
    • Qxd5, no? BTW, this is craziness for one pawn. But that fork is very real. V 13:31, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
      • Sorry, brain cramp. Yes, d5. I correct it.
Anti-Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
bad line after: 17. Qxd5!
  • at this point, black has no better option than to take the white queen with 17. .. QxQ when white can play 18. Ne7+ forking our king and queen!


Anti-Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
bad line after: 18. ne7+
  • now, after we move our king, white will play 19. NxQ and be up a center pawn


Anti-Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
bad line after: 19. NxQ
  • obviously don't vote for this. I just thought it was a fun one to examine Kingpatzer 13:15, 14 July 2006 (PDT)


Bb7


Suggested Move: Bb7
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move:Bb7
  • Ze's next move will be cxd5 and we will not be able to counter because we will lose our Bishop. If we move our Bishop now, we threaten his Knight.Miffed 18:29, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Ok, so this is not so good, I just thought it would be fun to add something. Should I just delete it? Miffed 18:31, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
      • nah, it's ok. Even ideas that are bad are good . . . half the fun is finding our way through the debate. Kingpatzer 20:12, 14 July 2006 (PDT)
Personal tools