Talk:Fabuloso Friday 2/Fabuloso Chess/Move14

From zefrank

Jump to: navigation, search
detailed history | current 3d view
Ze Us consensus
1 d4 d5 56%
2 c4 e6 66%
3 Nc3 Bb4 48%
4 Nf3 Nf6 82%
5 e3 Ne4 56%
6 Qc2 f5 62%
7 Bd3 O-O 83%
8 O-O b6 61%
9 a3 Bxc3 57%
10 bxc3 Ba6 65%
11 Ne5 Nd7 37%
12 Nc6 Qf6 89%
13 f3 Nd6 100%
14 e4 dxc4 100%
15 Be2 e5 100%
16 d5 Nb8 55%
17 Nb4 Bb7 93%
18 a4 a5 100%
19 Na2 Nd7 50%
20 Ba3 Rac8 50%
21 Rab1 Qg5 60%
22 Kh1 fxe4 61%
23 fxe4 Qg6 89%
24 Rxf8+ Rxf8 100%
25 Bxd6 Rf2 100%
26 Rg1 cxd6 100%
27 Qd1 Nf6 73%
28 Bf3 Nxe4 93%
29 Nc1 Rd2 53%
30 Bxe4 Rxd1 100%
31 Bxg6 Rxg1+ 100%
32 Kxg1 hxg6 100%
33 Resign ---


Voting Closed dxc4 100%

Today's Suggested Moves have been posted, and the voting polls will open at Monday 7PM EDT and close at Tuesday 12AM EDT(Monday Night), in order to give time for enough deliberation before the votes are cast. Don't have a username/Id yet? Get one here! and take some credit for your contributions!

Remember to check back even if you've already cast your vote! .. there's still some disagreement between potential moves .. and analysis will most likely continue up until Sunday night when the polls close. It's also not too late to submit a vote for another move that has not been evaluated yet .. (although it looks like we have most of the best move options available, people can always miss things).


  • (very) Rough draft of the Fabuloso Chess Edit Guide is now up and located here


Use the following tags to help suggest moves, and remember if you want to throw up an example speculative board in the discussion, please refer to the Edit Guide on how to properly format it.

 <!-- ==Speculative Move== -->

 <!-- REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD

  REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD -->

 <!-- MAKE CERTAIN YOU ADD A COMMENT TO JUSTIFY THIS POSITION-->

{{clear}}

Just follow the instructions, and completely delete those lines .. and don't forget to replace 'Speculative Move' with the actual move name. Also bear in mind that anything after the clear tag won't be visible, so don't enter any text underneath it (unless you're adding another section)

Voting Instructions

Cut and paste the following to vote

# '''VOTE''' by ~~~~: add a comment! 
  • You may vote for many moves as you like, but only one vote per move.
  • When voting closes, the move with the most votes wins.
  • If there is a tie, whoever tallies the votes breaks the tie.

Strategy Discussion

  • OK, Sorry, I don't know much about how to maintain a WIKI, but I thought I would get things started. Sorry for the confusion - I was the idiot who thought he said e5, not e4 - my bad.--Absalom 12:00, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Somehow things got mixed up. Ze's move was e4, not Ne5. PTWhipplebang 10:42, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • what happened? did he change it? or did someone just read it wrong? Geedubber 10:51, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • When I watched the show, at the end there was a black screen with white text reading "FABULOSOS: E4." I assume that's his move. PTWhipplebang 10:46, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I am tempted to write Ze's move as e4?? since I think it was a blunder. We get a free pawn. Geedubber 11:57, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I don't like the way the middle is shaping up. We need to prevent e5 but none of the exchanges beginning with xe4 come out in our favour, for example fxe4 15. fxe4 (now our queen is threatened but I'm ignoring that to show we lose anyway) dxe4 16. Bxe4 Nxe4 17. Qxe4? (it brings his queen out unsupported but I can't see how this would help us, unless I'm missing something obvious) It would be very devastating for both sides but leave him with a stronger position than us. He who says zonk 12:15, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Or there's fxe4 15. fxe4 Qxf1+? 16. Bxf1 Rxf1 which very briefly seems like a good idea until it all crashes down on us He who says zonk 12:22, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Or fxe4 15. fxe4 dxe4 is a blunder by us, followed up by 16. Rxf6 Rxf6 17.Bxe4 Nxe4 18.Qxe4


Current board position (flip me)
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last move: e4 ???

Contents



Suggested Move Summary

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: dxc4
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: nxc4
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: fxe4
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: dxe4
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Bxc4
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Rfe8
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Rae8


dxc4


Suggested Move: dxc4
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: dxc4
  • Takes a pawn, threatens his bishop. Geedubber 10:49, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
    • It also locks up that diagonal for our bishop (not a good thing).
      • That's a good point. If the white bishop moves away from the attack, our pawn will block our diagonal to the rook.
      • It does block our bishop but it really cramps him in. I think this is Black's best response. Jeff 11:16, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
      • It force him to retreat to Be2 and basically lose a move. It really locks him up. Geedubber 11:23, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
      • I don't think he'd bother with Be2, he'd just move e5 and threaten our queen. I'm sure he'd be willing to sacrifice his bishop for our queen. Beyond that, I think we need to be worrying about e5. If he moves there, then we have to respond by moving the queen, because Nxe5 loses the knight to d4xe5, and we don't gain anything because then we still have to move the queen. Anyway, to recap, he might have to move Be2 eventually, but not before e5... actually, I guess as long as we know what we're doing with the queen after he moves e5, then this move is fine. --Salamander 12:05, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
        • He wouldn't move e5 cause he'd lose his bishop. cxd3 takes his bishop and threatens his queen. If he takes our queen then we'd take his. Geedubber 12:03, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
          • Good point. --Salamander 12:05, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
          • What if he moves his queen to d2? we are still forked by his pawn on e5. 209.53.180.243 15:16, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
            • I think this would lead to: 14. .. dxc4 15. e5 cxd3 16. Qd2 Nxe5 17. dxe5, meaning Ze will have given us 2 pawns and a bish for a knight. As I understand it, that's pretty good for us. 874 15:44, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Also, if Ze (eventually) responds with Be2, this pawn resctricts the mobility of our d6 knight. -87 12:00, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
      • Anothe way to look at it would be to say the knight protects the pawn. Geedubber 12:06, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • The question to answer is -- does the limitation of our bishop's scope mean more to white than the limitation of Ze's bishop's scope mean to black. The only way to answer this is to calculate lines. Generalities won't help here! That said, here's what I see:
  • Ze must retreat his bishop to e2, so we start with that 14. .. dxc4 15. Be2
  • Now there are some choices on the table: 15. .. e5; 15. .. fxe4; 15. .. Bb7; and 15. Bb5 seem to me the only serious contenders for the next move.
  • 14. .. dxc4 15. Be2 e5 and white has choices of Be3, Qa2, exf5 everything else is clearly worse
  • 14. .. dxc4 15. Be2 fxe4 16. fxe4 is at best equal for black but is frankly kind of scary. Our queen is under attack, the open f-file will be owned by white, and it looks like black goes defensive. I think we'd avoid this line, so ...
  • 14. .. dxc4 15. Be2 Bb7 16. e5 and white appears quite solid to me. After we move the queen white will take the knight iwth the pawn, we'll take the knight with the bishop, and white will take our c pawn giving white an advanced passed pawn and a temporary material advantage. Again, I think we would do well to avoid this line
  • 14. .. dxc4 15. .. Bb5 16. e5 leads to similar lines as Bb7
  • thus there's only really 15. to look at further
  • 14. dxc4 15. Be2 e5 16. Be3 and black has a few choices Bb7, Qe6, exd4, fxe4
  • to avoid making this too long I'm just going to look at one choice, Bb7
  • 14. .. dxc4 15. Be2 e5 16. Be3 Bb7 17. Nxe5 Nxe5 and NOW black's bishop is exherting powerfull pressure on white's center, while white's bishop is doing nothing meaningful and doesn't look like it will for some time.
  • conclusion: this is a great line for black! Kingpatzer 12:09, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Agreed. This seems like the only move suggested so far without serious consequences. PTWhipplebang 12:28, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • It seems to me that we have to act in the middle to prevent it being swept away, and this looks like the best move. He who says zonk 12:31, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Playing devil's advocate, what about 14. .. dxc4 15. Qa4 ? Would .. cxd3 16. Qxa6 be good for us? -87 12:34, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • 15. Qa4 Bb5 protects our bishop with our knight and threatens his queen. He would have to retreat to Qb4 or Qc2 or Qd1. He basically loses a move doing this. Geedubber 12:44, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • plus we then get to take his bishop so with the pawn on c4 so he goes down a piece. Kingpatzer 13:00, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Better yet(?), we take his Knight with our Bishop . . . Or take his bishop THEN his knight . . . SaintPeter 19:13, 17 July 2006 (PDT)

Voting

  1. Cool, I'm sold. This has my early vote as I'll hopefully be asleep long before the polls open. -87 13:35, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  2. VOTE by PTWhipplebang 16:03, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  3. VOTE by Geedubber 16:41, 17 July 2006 (PDT) : Thanks for the free pawn Ze!
  4. vote by mayorcjSR 16:48, 17 July 2006 (PDT) : This is the "best of all possible moves"
  5. VOTE by Kingpatzer 16:53, 17 July 2006 (PDT) : simple, solid, and limits Ze's responses. Puts us in control!
  6. VOTE by V 17:02, 17 July 2006 (PDT) : Finally eliminates the pressure on the diagonal towards our f pawn.
  7. VOTE by Jeff 17:47, 17 July 2006 (PDT): Hooray!
  8. VOTE by 68.43.125.79 18:20, 17 July 2006 (PDT): Might this vote be unanimous?
  9. VOTE by SaintPeter 19:13, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  10. VOTE by Sal Mancini seems good to me
  11. VOTE by bobbie_macrap at me 20:15, 17 July 2006 (PDT) so simple I couldn't see it. : )
  12. VOTE by Animegod 16:03, 17 July 2006 (PDT) This is good. The Bishop can either retreat or go the way of the Dodo.
  13. VOTE by He who says zonk 21:10, 17 July 2006 (PDT) looking like a landslide result so far :P


Nxc4


Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Nxc4
  • Wins a pawn, but we cannot move the knight without protecting the bishop. If Ze takes the knight, we take the bishop and threaten the rook. We are threatening a fork, but we cannot do it without setup and Ze will easily evade.--Neal 11:02, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Do we end up losing a knight and bishop for just a pawn and bishop here? Probably Bxc4 is a better move.--Neal 11:07, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
    • I don't know, but Ze would probably respond with e5 threatening our queen or Qa4 threatening our bishop. With this move we are forcing him to be more aggressive. Geedubber 11:10, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • does not win pawn. Qa4 keeps the pawn and manages to destroy the coordination of our pieces that we've developed thus far. Not horrible, but probably less than ideal. Kingpatzer 12:12, 17 July 2006 (PDT)

#STRONG VOTE by bobbie_macrap at me 20:09, 17 July 2006 (PDT): this puts both knights in a postion to attack e5 and prevents our queen and knight from being forked. IMO, we have to do this move OR move the queen now or we're in a world of hurt with a simple 15. e5 ...

    • duh. Never mind. I guess I'll read the discussions more carefully and not rely on my own feeble brain so much.  : ) bobbie_macrap at me


fxe4


Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: fxe4
  • I like this move. It eliminates the e5 push, and can potentially free up the f column for an assault by our Q. Shadowcrash 12:01, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
    • 15. fxe4 then what? We have to move the queen, and cannot do Qxf1 because of his bishop. I think we have to steer clear of this exchange, no matter how it's started. 64.7.149.152 12:13, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
    • How would you respond to fxe4 ? Looks like this would put the queen in trouble...
    • handing an open file to white. bad move. Kingpatzer 12:15, 17 July 2006 (PDT)


Bxc4

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Bxc4


  • A bit more agressive version -- Oeny
  • Bxc4 loses to e5 -Jeff 11:12, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
    • true -- Oeny
    • Not necessarily. If we retreat the queen somewhere and he takes the bishop, we recapture with the knight or the pawn. Maybe something like this: 15. e5 Qf7 16. Bxc4 Nxc4. Probably needs more thorough analysis than I can provide. 64.7.149.152 12:19, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
      • It is not the bishop we are worried about. We lose the knight. Geedubber 12:23, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
        • Whoop! You're right. How would it play out? 15. e5 Bxd3 16. Qxd3 Qf7 17. exd6 cxd6. I believe that 14 ... dxc4 plays out better than this one.64.7.149.152 12:37, 17 July 2006 (PDT)


dxe4


Suggested Move:
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: dxe4

This eliminates the potential threat on our queen and may lead to us trading a knight for his bishop. PTWhipplebang 11:33, 17 July 2006 (PDT)

  • fxe4 seems better to me, as our d pawn is attacking his c pawn and blocking his d pawn, while our f pawn is currently only blocking our queen. -87 12:05, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • If we start this exchange, we end up with our f-pawn pinned to our queen. 15. fxe4 fxe4 16. Rxf6! I don't think this is the way to go. 64.7.149.152 12:09, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Good points. I'd never suggested a move before; I thought I'd give it a shot. PTWhipplebang 12:56, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
    • lol, please don't let it discourage you; All my ideas get summarily (and convincingly) shot down as soon as I post them ;-). But just you wait! One of these days I'll find the brilliant move that no else has seen!! -87 13:28, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Heh. I was expecting as much. I'm trying to learn how to see further ahead in the game. I'm having fun with this, though. PTWhipplebang 13:41, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • For what it's worth .. this move was best. dxc4 is a blunder, this had the best potential to equalize. Don't doubt yourself because you got lost in the shuffle.


Rfe8


Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Rfe8
  • Puts pressure on his knight and keeps us from having to move our king next move if he goes for check. -christian 11:26, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
    • How does this put pressure on his knight? -87 12:07, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Loses to e5. Jeff 11:53, 17 July 2006 (PDT)


Rae8


Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Rae8
  • Similar to the move above, but brings another piece to bear on this side of the board.
    • Loses to e5 as well. Geedubber 12:09, 17 July 2006 (PDT)







Personal tools