Talk:Fabuloso Friday 2/Fabuloso Chess/Move16x2

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detailed history | current 3d view
Ze Us consensus
1 d4 d5 56%
2 c4 e6 66%
3 Nc3 Bb4 48%
4 Nf3 Nf6 82%
5 e3 Ne4 56%
6 Qc2 f5 62%
7 Bd3 O-O 83%
8 O-O b6 61%
9 a3 Bxc3 57%
10 bxc3 Ba6 65%
11 Ne5 Nd7 37%
12 Nc6 Qf6 89%
13 f3 Nd6 100%
14 e4 dxc4 100%
15 Be2 e5 100%
16 d5 Nb8 55%
17 Nb4 Bb7 93%
18 a4 a5 100%
19 Na2 Nd7 50%
20 Ba3 Rac8 50%
21 Rab1 Qg5 60%
22 Kh1 fxe4 61%
23 fxe4 Qg6 89%
24 Rxf8+ Rxf8 100%
25 Bxd6 Rf2 100%
26 Rg1 cxd6 100%
27 Qd1 Nf6 73%
28 Bf3 Nxe4 93%
29 Nc1 Rd2 53%
30 Bxe4 Rxd1 100%
31 Bxg6 Rxg1+ 100%
32 Kxg1 hxg6 100%
33 Resign ---

Voting CLOSED: Nb8

Today's Suggested Moves have been posted, and the voting polls will open at Thursday 7PM EDT and close at Friday 12AM EDT(Thursday night), in order to give time for enough deliberation before the votes are cast. Don't have a username/Id yet? Get one here! and take some credit for your contributions!

Remember to check back even if you've already cast your vote! .. there's still some disagreement between potential moves .. and analysis will most likely continue up until Sunday night when the polls close. It's also not too late to submit a vote for another move that has not been evaluated yet .. (although it looks like we have most of the best move options available, people can always miss things).


  • (very) Rough draft of the Fabuloso Chess Edit Guide is now up and located here


Use the following tags to help suggest moves, and remember if you want to throw up an example speculative board in the discussion, please refer to the Edit Guide on how to properly format it.

 <!-- ==Speculative Move== -->

 <!-- REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD

  REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD -->

 <!-- MAKE CERTAIN YOU ADD A COMMENT TO JUSTIFY THIS POSITION-->

{{clear}}

Just follow the instructions, and completely delete those lines .. and don't forget to replace 'Speculative Move' with the actual move name. Also bear in mind that anything after the clear tag won't be visible, so don't enter any text underneath it (unless you're adding another section)

Voting Instructions

Cut and paste the following to vote

# '''VOTE''' by ~~~~: add a comment! 
  • You may vote for many moves as you like, but only one vote per move.
  • When voting closes, the move with the most votes wins.
  • If there is a tie, whoever tallies the votes breaks the tie.

Strategy Discussion

Current board position (flip me)
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last move: 16. d5

Contents



Suggested Move Summary

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Rae8
Suggested position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Bb7
Suggested position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Bb5
Suggested position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Nb8
Suggested position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: f5



Rae8

Current board position (flip me)
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last move: 16. d5 Rae8


  • These center files are going to open up soon and this might be a good time to get our 2nd rook in a position to do some damage.
    • Not sure I like what happens after 17. Qa4 Bc6 18. Qxa7
      • Be3 is actually a very solid response to this. I see no significant advantage to black here. Frankly, this is below Nb8, Bb7 or Bb5 in my book. It's not bad, but I can't quite vote for it. Kingpatzer 16:43, 20 July 2006 (PDT)


Rf7

Current board position (flip me)
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last move: 16. d5 Rf7
  • This would let us get the queen and two rooks on the same file with 17. ... Raf8
    • I honestly think this is semi-incorrect. Like Rae8 above, it just isn't quite on par with Bb7, Bb5 or my favorite Nb8 Kingpatzer 16:44, 20 July 2006 (PDT)


Speculative move (flip me)
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last move: 16. d5 Rf7


Bb7

Speculative position
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last move: 16. d5 Bb7
  • I'm not too fond of trading our last bishop for a knight, but it does allow for a collapse of white's pawn structure. And nights are useful in these crowded positions. V 14:56, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
  • We need the ability take out his knight so as blunt the effect of its placement on various possible combinations. Also that long string of White pawns is going to be a focus for us so if White moves the Knight, the bishop is putting pressure on the right part of the board.Jeff 16:22, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
    • You're right. And moving the bishop makes so we don't have to move it if white plays Qa4. And come to think of it, I'd rather have two knights that complement each other rather than the alternative. I especially like getting one of them in c3 or b2. V 17:12, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
      • Our bishop is better than his knight. I'd rather trade our least developed knight for his most developed piece! Kingpatzer 19:10, 20 July 2006 (PDT)

VOTING

  1. VOTE by Jeff 16:19, 20 July 2006 (PDT): Limiting White's options and keeping up the pressure.
  2. VOTE by Kingpatzer 16:41, 20 July 2006 (PDT) : I can support this, but think Nb8 is superior
  3. VOTE by V 16:53, 20 July 2006 (PDT) : I like this new diagonal too now that the c pawn is where it is. Plus, it's the only move I've ever suggested.
  4. VOTE by Wophugus : Nb8 feels a little too retrograde for me.
  5. VOTE by Geedubber 19:09, 20 July 2006 (PDT) : per Wophugus
  6. VOTE by hobophobe 19:15, 20 July 2006 (PDT) : This is our strongest move. Puts the bishop where it belongs in a threatening position (but not committed to an attack) and doesn't put anything on the chopping block like Nb8 does.
  7. VOTE by Otis 19:22, 20 July 2006 (PDT): I can support this move, too.


Bb5

Suggested position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Bb5
  • perhaps not the best, but this is a very playable option Kingpatzer 16:30, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I don't know about this one. White can force the trade of bishop for Knight. After 17. a4 Bxc6 18. dxc6 Nc5 19. exf5 White seems to have a lot more play. Black has too many things hanging and White has both bishops. It's true that White's pawns are not well placed, but it's hard for Black to manuever to take advantage of that.Jeff 21:14, 20 July 2006 (PDT)

Voting

  1. VOTE by Kingpatzer 16:42, 20 July 2006 (PDT) : I can support this but think Nb8 is superior.


Nb8

Suggested position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Nb8
  • It may appear a little backward, but this is actually a very playable line and is, I think, best. White can take with Nxb8 where we take back Raxb8 and we've got a better pawn structure and are still playing a pawn up. Alternately, he can play Nb4 when Bb7 followed by a5 will show him who's boss. We have nothing to fear from exf5, a4, Qd1 Rb1 or anything else I can see. Kingpatzer 16:39, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I haven't completely thought this through, but after exf5 by white, what do you propose to do? We can't take it with either the knight or the queen and the queen effectively becomes a doorstop. With the knight at d7 is much better as it can cover that spot. And it has the option of eventually moving forward to d3 where it can do more damage. We'd have to trade right away with the white knight to avoid losing the queen or a piece if we want to take f5 back. V 17:29, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
    • if he plays 17. exf5 then 17. .. NxN 18. dxc6 and his pawn structure is even worse than it is now. We can then pull our bishop back to c8 to hit the f5 pawn and he's going to be hard pressed to find any advantage. Honestly this is a very bad line for white. Probably best for white is to trade the knights off straight away, and then play Be3. So 17. NxN RaxN then he has a few choices:
  • 18. a4 to try and create some chaos for black's pawns, but 18. .. fxe4 19. fxe4 Qg6 (threatens his e pawn!) gives him some problems.
  • 18. Qa4 when Bb5 sets a nasty little trap if he's foolish enough to take the a7 pawn (18. .. Bb5 19. Qxa7? Rb7 and he has to trade Q for rook!!) so 18. Qa4 Bb5 19. Qc2 Bd7 sets us up very nicely for the fight for the f pawn. Kingpatzer 19:06, 20 July 2006 (PDT)


  • This move hurts my brain. Aren't we sort of losing a tempo by doing this? I am not near a board so I can't really do any of my own analysis at the moment. But won't our a7 pawn be unprotected? I know the a pawn is 'poisoned' but I still don't like leaving him hanging, plus he can't push cause the bishop is in the way. Geedubber 18:56, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Oh, never mind. If he trys to eat the pawn with his queen we move the rook back and his queen is trapped.Geedubber 19:08, 20 July 2006 (PDT)

Voting

  1. VOTE by Kingpatzer 16:39, 20 July 2006 (PDT) : it is counter intuitive, but this is a kicking move!
  2. VOTE by PTWhipplebang 16:46, 20 July 2006 (PDT): A convincing enough argument.
  3. VOTE by Crynyd 17:02, 20 July 2006 (PDT): I just registered to say I like it!
  4. VOTE by JudiciousH 17:40, 20 July 2006 (PDT): I was tired of moving that bishop around anyway.
  5. VOTE by Otis 18:41, 20 July 2006 (PDT): This move is good, I thought about Qg6 but just now saw the counter...
  6. VOTE by Wingnut 18:51, 20 July 2006 (PDT): I agree, it's better to keep our bishop on the board for now
  7. VOTE by SalMancini I'll go for this wacky move.
  8. VOTE by mayorcjSR 19:37, 20 July 2006 (PDT): I'll bite. In case anyone was wondering, I e.mail'd Ze that we were willing to redo Move 16. If anyone is upset about this, talk to me and everyone who said they'd like to do this. Me, I thought it was the honest thing to do. Although, like Ze said "Do it again and forfeit your turn"
  9. VOTE by bobbie_macrap at me 20:08, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
  10. VOTE by bitBender 23:41, 20 July 2006 (EDT)
  11. VOTE by Jeff 20:48, 20 July 2006 (PDT): After giving this a second look I agree that with best play it's just as good as Bb7. In fact I think it gives White less margin for error.
  12. VOTE by psychotic_venom 10:17:46, 21 July 2006 (CDT) : This kicks all sorts of arse.

f4

Suggested position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: f4
  • I guess it's too late to get any votes but I think this is the best. It makes both of White's bishops pretty much useless, adds value to our white-square bishop, and gains space on the King side. We can take care of Ze's Knight at our leisure.
    • This really takes the pressure off White. It makes his pawn chain a lot less vulnerable and allows him to use his pieces for other things. Jeff 21:45, 20 July 2006 (PDT)

VOTING

  1. VOTE by Snark 20:21, 20 July 2006 (PDT): I think this is the best
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