Talk:Fabuloso Friday 2/Fabuloso Chess/Move18

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detailed history | current 3d view
Ze Us consensus
1 d4 d5 56%
2 c4 e6 66%
3 Nc3 Bb4 48%
4 Nf3 Nf6 82%
5 e3 Ne4 56%
6 Qc2 f5 62%
7 Bd3 O-O 83%
8 O-O b6 61%
9 a3 Bxc3 57%
10 bxc3 Ba6 65%
11 Ne5 Nd7 37%
12 Nc6 Qf6 89%
13 f3 Nd6 100%
14 e4 dxc4 100%
15 Be2 e5 100%
16 d5 Nb8 55%
17 Nb4 Bb7 93%
18 a4 a5 100%
19 Na2 Nd7 50%
20 Ba3 Rac8 50%
21 Rab1 Qg5 60%
22 Kh1 fxe4 61%
23 fxe4 Qg6 89%
24 Rxf8+ Rxf8 100%
25 Bxd6 Rf2 100%
26 Rg1 cxd6 100%
27 Qd1 Nf6 73%
28 Bf3 Nxe4 93%
29 Nc1 Rd2 53%
30 Bxe4 Rxd1 100%
31 Bxg6 Rxg1+ 100%
32 Kxg1 hxg6 100%
33 Resign ---

Voting CLOSED: a5

consensus: 100%

Today's Suggested Moves have been posted, and the voting polls will open at Monday 7PM EDT and close at Tuesday 12AM EDT(Monday night), in order to give time for enough deliberation before the votes are cast. Don't have a username/Id yet? Get one here! and take some credit for your contributions!

Remember to check back even if you've already cast your vote! .. there's still some disagreement between potential moves .. and analysis will most likely continue up until Sunday night when the polls close. It's also not too late to submit a vote for another move that has not been evaluated yet .. (although it looks like we have most of the best move options available, people can always miss things).


  • (very) Rough draft of the Fabuloso Chess Edit Guide is now up and located here


Use the following tags to help suggest moves, and remember if you want to throw up an example speculative board in the discussion, please refer to the Edit Guide on how to properly format it.

 <!-- ==Speculative Move== -->

 <!-- REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD

  REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD -->

 <!-- MAKE CERTAIN YOU ADD A COMMENT TO JUSTIFY THIS POSITION-->

{{clear}}

Just follow the instructions, and completely delete those lines .. and don't forget to replace 'Speculative Move' with the actual move name. Also bear in mind that anything after the clear tag won't be visible, so don't enter any text underneath it (unless you're adding another section)

Voting Instructions

Cut and paste the following to vote

# '''VOTE''' by ~~~~: add a comment! 
  • You may vote for many moves as you like, but only one vote per move.
  • When voting closes, the move with the most votes wins.
  • If there is a tie, whoever tallies the votes breaks the tie.

Strategy Discussion

Current board position (flip me)
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last move: a4

Contents



Suggested Move Summary

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: a5
Suggested Move: Qg6
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: 18. a4 Qg6
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: c5





a5


Suggested Move: a5
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: a5

Chase his knight to a2 Geedubber 11:41, 24 July 2006 (PDT)

  • Best move. White's pieces are all goobered up. I think Na2 should be followed by Nd7. Snark 12:00, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
    • either Nd7 or we start the fxe4 exchange. Geedubber 12:03, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
      • I prefer Nd7 so we can retake his Rook with our Rook after fxe4 and subsequent Rook exchange. He woSnark 12:06, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
    • How about 19 .. c6, then 20. xc6 Nxc6 or 20. xc6 Bxc6--Cubzas 14:07, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Is this better than c5? Or maybe we should consider (18. a4 a5) (19. Na2 c6)? I don't really like fxe4.--Neal 12:15, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
    • c5 allows En passant. - arc
    • It is better. It forces his Knight back. Jeff 12:20, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
      • I made a c5 board below. discussion about that move should probably happen there. Geedubber 12:22, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  • a5 puts his knight on a2 where it is totally useless. so something like: 18. .. a5 19. Na2 Nd7 20. Ba3 Qh4 (looking to play fxe4) puts us in a very nice way. Kingpatzer 12:53, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
    • You mean 19. Na2 Nd7, correct? Either way, I like this move and strategy. --Absalom 14:56, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I like this move.----- The only reason I see why Ze played a4 is to move his Bishop to a3. That would weaken our pawn at c4 because the Knight can not move without sacrificing the rock. Just something to keep in mind.-- Oeny 13:07, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  • we have plenty of options after 19. Na2 We could play Nd7, c6, fxe4, or Qg6. Tomorrow will be very interesting. Geedubber 13:55, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Couple things: First, if Ze is planning on Ba3, then he's planning on moving the knight anyway. Do we want to move a5 regardless (for instance, to cover c4 with the Bishop at a6. Second, I see it being 18 ...a5 19 Nc6 Nxc6 20 dxc6 Bxc6 21 Ba3 followed by Bxd6 and Bxc4(+), before our bishop can get back to a6. He gets rid of his knight and our c4 pawn and opens up the D file (which looks like it should benefit him given his overall space advantage on the queenside). Am I seeing things? (Oh, and hello.)--Macgabhain 21:15, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  • He could have done a knight exchange on move 17, but he chose not to. Ze wants to keep his knight. 154.20.161.143 21:28, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
    • He doesn't want "a knight exchange". Moving Na2 would, as pointed out here, be nothing but bad for him. His only other move is the exchange, which seems to work out quite well for him. Sorry I was too late to point bring this up before the voting.--66.41.113.19 23:27, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
      • How does that work out well for him? He would be down a pawn. We don't have to worry about Bc4+ cause we could move our queen to e6.154.20.161.143 00:12, 25 July 2006 (PDT)
        • Seriously, oh no, he trades his knight and a pawn for a knight. He can play Na2 or Nc6 and I'll be happy. - arc

VOTING

  1. VOTE by Jeff 12:20, 24 July 2006 (PDT): This was the plan after Bb7. It's still the right plan. See y'all tomorrow.
  2. VOTE by -874 12:54, 24 July 2006 (PDT): Yup, sticking to the plan seems wise.
  3. VOTE by Kingpatzer 13:03, 24 July 2006 (PDT) : i liked the plan before, I like it still
  4. VOTE by Geedubber 13:49, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  5. VOTE by Cubzas 13:58, 24 July 2006 (PDT) --
  6. VOTE by V 13:59, 24 July 2006 (PDT) : Run horsy! RUN!
  7. VOTE by mick129 14:01, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  8. VOTE by Otis 14:03, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  9. VOTE by SalMancini Let's do this thing.
  10. VOTE by Absalom Appears to be evolving nicely.
  11. VOTE by mayorcjSR 15:16, 24 July 2006 (PDT) : Why? Because every one else seems to be jumping off this particular bridge.
  12. VOTE by SaintPeter 15:21, 24 July 2006 (PDT) Yay! Chase the knight!
  13. VOTE by Amorphus 15:46, 24 July 2006 (PDT): Goobered up pieces is good.
  14. VOTE by bobbie_macrap at me 16:20, 24 July 2006 (PDT): ze brings the pale horse...we bring the death.
  15. VOTE by Snark 19:26, 24 July 2006 (PDT): A knight on the rim is dim
  16. VOTE by TtT 19:46, 24 July 2006 (PDT): This move seems to be the one that is guaranteed to harm Ze and his poor horsey whereas other moves appear only to be mildly good-ish for us
  17. VOTE by 67.188.209.100 20:19, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  18. VOTE by Thebigjc 20:46, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  19. VOTE by crynyd 20:57, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  20. VOTE by Theroachman 21:18, 24 July 2006 (PDT) : I bet Ze will choose Nc6 over Na2. He'll go for the piece exchange (his knight for our knight or his knight for our rook), i promise. Looks exciting so it has my vote!
  21. VOTE by Animegod 21:23, 24 July 2006 (PDT): If Ze chooses Nc6 we should take with the Bishop. As goobed up as things are right now Knights are our best friends.
  22. VOTE by --66.41.113.19 23:33, 24 July 2006 (PDT) Then if Nc6 take with knight, and Ba6, not Bxc6, protecting the c4 pawn and keeping his white bishop in.

Qg6


Suggested Move: Qg6
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: 18. a4 Qg6

Suggesting it again from last round...

Allows our rook to cover the f rank and improves our position on that side of the board in event of an exchange. It does not make our position bulletproof but it is an improvement on what is currently there and gives us more scope for development. Subtle changes for future benefits. He who says zonk 11:49, 24 July 2006 (PDT)

  • I moved the bishiop from a6 to b7. Just so you know. Jes ter23
  • Oops, copy-pasted and didnt check it was current. Cheers. He who says zonk 12:00, 24 July 2006 (PDT)

Adding a bit... If he plays 19. f4 xf4 20. Bxf4 then it's messy, could lead to us exchanging a rook for a bishop and making that side of the board shaky for both us and ze. I'd like to see other people's thoughts on this line. Either way I think the queen move is valuable because the f4 weakness is there regardless. He who says zonk 12:07, 24 July 2006 (PDT)

  • Thus maybe better this round would be advancing the g7 pawn to g5 to pre-empt f4 He who says zonk 12:07, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
    • This is all too soon. We need the Nd7 move to reconnect our rooks. And f4 is no threat to us. For instance, 18. a4 a5 19. Na2 Nd7 20. f4 fxe4 21. fxe5 Qxe5 and we take the d5 pawn and go up three pawns plus position. Snark 12:12, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I didn't mean that f4 was a threat now, I meant that it would be a threat if we moved Qg6. The present threat would be 19. Na2 ... 20. exf5 Nxf5 21. Bxc4 and our supposedly strong middle is being shattered positionally while we lose two pawns to his one. He who says zonk 01:33, 25 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I think this gets plain ugly. I think the immediate 18. .. Qg6 19. exf5 puts us in an immediate bind. We can't trade out our knight as we lose our c pawn. We don't want to trade queens as our pieces currently enjoy superior mobility, so that leaves Rxf5 as the only logical move. so after 19. .. Rxf5 20. a5 and I think we're starting to have some problems. This is going into a very complicated position for no clear gain. Unless someone has some analysis that shows we clearly come out at the end of this at least as good as we are now going into it, I can't see supporting this. Kingpatzer 13:02, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I think this move may be in our future, Mr. Zonk, but for now I think chasing the little horsey around is loads more fun. Otis 14:09, 24 July 2006 (PDT)

c5


Suggested Move: c5
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: c5

Chase his knight to a2. Geedubber 12:19, 24 July 2006 (PDT)

  • En passant. - arc
    • which we could capture with our bishop Geedubber 12:25, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
      • I fail to see why we just spent all that effort moving our bishop around if we're just going to offer it up for trade. I also fail to see how this chases away his knight, because it doesn't. - arc
    • There's nothing inherently wrong with en passant but we're making d5 into a target so why ease up on the pressure by letting him exchange it? After c5 19. dxc6 Nxc6 20. Nd5 we've let White out of his box. Snark 12:28, 24 July 2006 (PDT)
  • right now we're ahead materially and positionally. This move gives it all away. 18. .. c5 19. dxc6 Nxc6 20. Nd5 Qd8 (pretty much forced) 21. Ba3 and all the positional gains we have made are gone. The white knight is back to a good square and white's center problems are resolved. Moreover, because we're no longer positionally superior, we will no longer be able to hold our material advantage. From this position white will achieve material equality in 2 or 3 more moves at most. Kingpatzer 12:57, 24 July 2006 (PDT)







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