Talk:Fabuloso Friday 2/Fabuloso Chess/Move26

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detailed history | current 3d view
Ze Us consensus
1 d4 d5 56%
2 c4 e6 66%
3 Nc3 Bb4 48%
4 Nf3 Nf6 82%
5 e3 Ne4 56%
6 Qc2 f5 62%
7 Bd3 O-O 83%
8 O-O b6 61%
9 a3 Bxc3 57%
10 bxc3 Ba6 65%
11 Ne5 Nd7 37%
12 Nc6 Qf6 89%
13 f3 Nd6 100%
14 e4 dxc4 100%
15 Be2 e5 100%
16 d5 Nb8 55%
17 Nb4 Bb7 93%
18 a4 a5 100%
19 Na2 Nd7 50%
20 Ba3 Rac8 50%
21 Rab1 Qg5 60%
22 Kh1 fxe4 61%
23 fxe4 Qg6 89%
24 Rxf8+ Rxf8 100%
25 Bxd6 Rf2 100%
26 Rg1 cxd6 100%
27 Qd1 Nf6 73%
28 Bf3 Nxe4 93%
29 Nc1 Rd2 53%
30 Bxe4 Rxd1 100%
31 Bxg6 Rxg1+ 100%
32 Kxg1 hxg6 100%
33 Resign ---

Voting Closed cxd6 100%

cxd6 17 votes.

Today's Suggested Moves have been posted, and the voting polls will open Thursday, August 3rd @7PM EDT and close at Friday, August 4th 12AM EDT (INSERT NEXT DAY Night), in order to give time for enough deliberation before the votes are cast. Don't have a username/Id yet? Get one here! and take some credit for your contributions!

Remember to check back even if you've already cast your vote! .. there's still some disagreement between potential moves .. and analysis will most likely continue up until Sunday night when the polls close. It's also not too late to submit a vote for another move that has not been evaluated yet .. (although it looks like we have most of the best move options available, people can always miss things).


  • (very) Rough draft of the Fabuloso Chess Edit Guide is now up and located here


Use the following tags to help suggest moves, and remember if you want to throw up an example speculative board in the discussion, please refer to the Edit Guide on how to properly format it.

 <!-- ==Speculative Move== -->

 <!-- REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD

  REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD -->

 <!-- MAKE CERTAIN YOU ADD A COMMENT TO JUSTIFY THIS POSITION-->

{{clear}}

Just follow the instructions, and completely delete those lines .. and don't forget to replace 'Speculative Move' with the actual move name. Also bear in mind that anything after the clear tag won't be visible, so don't enter any text underneath it (unless you're adding another section)

Voting Instructions

Cut and paste the following to vote

# '''VOTE''' by ~~~~: add a comment! 
  • You may vote for many moves as you like, but only one vote per move.
  • When voting closes, the move with the most votes wins.
  • If there is a tie, whoever tallies the votes breaks the tie.


Strategy Discussion

Current Position
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last Move: Rg1

Contents



Please take the time to familiarize yourself with some common middlegame tactics as well.

Also, please don't be too hesitant to suggest your own move in this section. Just use * to begin a line and add your idea, even if you aren't familiar with notation, or don't feel comfortable updating the boards/suggestions yourself, there are plenty of us that will be more than willing to set them up for you (and keep everything organized) ├črigaderant


Suggested Move Summary

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: cxd6
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Qxd6
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Bxd5
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Kh8















cxd6


Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: cxd6
  • According to yesterday, this is the only move. V 12:43, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Having joined the cxd6 camp (it being the best way to deal with the immediate problem of the Bishop) I'd like to put a vote in for this (After I get home from work I won't be on a computer for awhile.) Please put my name in the vote section for this when the time comes. Thanks. medwardstalk
    • Likewise I'd appreciate if someone added my name to the votes for it. I will be asleep. He who says zonk 14:16, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Any other move wouldn't male much sense. It's too soon to initiate the queen fork and exchange and we need to get rid of that threat.Funky citrus 12:48, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • the only other move that makes any kind of sense to me is QxB, but it seems intuitively obvious that the queen is far more powerfull on the king side than stuck behind those center pawns. Kingpatzer 12:49, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • wait a tick, the queen exchange doesn't exist anymore. That bishop took out our knight.
    • That's why we'll try and play Nc5 on our next move. V 12:56, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • if 27. Qd1 then Qxe4 increases our material advantage. If 27. Nc1 then Bxd5 puts him in a bind. if 27. h3 then Bxd5 again works to our advantage. Nothing else makes much sense for white. Kingpatzer 12:57, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • What I don't like about 27. ... Bxd5 is that our bishop is stuck there afterwards. Ze can sit back and do something else. If we move the bishop, he does Bxc4+ and then our rook is a goner. V 13:03, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
      • It's "stuck" but so what? What does he do? Nc1? Qd1? Qd2? Qb2? Bh5? Kingpatzer 14:38, 3 August 2006 (PDT) The threat to check our king is there if we simply make a dumb move, but that's not a reason, imho, to refuse material. There's no threat there we can't avoid by correct play. Kingpatzer 14:38, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • This is far and away the best move. We will soon clean up against White as Ze has to burn material to avoid mate. Snark 13:34, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • OK, I agree - it is the best move. --Cubzas 13:36, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • What's Ze's response? 27 Qd1 or g3?
    • Not sure about g3 yet, but Qd1 has the easy response of Qxe4 (I think). arc
    • If g3, then 28. g3 Qh6 29. h4 Qe3. I like the way they both look. arc
      • Why not 27. g3 Bd5? --Cubzas 14:02, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
        • Yeah, that's the time to play Bxd5. :-) Snark 14:05, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • White will probably play Qd1, Qd2, or Nc1. We should play Nc5 in response to either of those. Qxe4 (in response to Qd1 or Qd2) is not as good because Bf3 will be annoying. Snark 14:05, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • This is the only good move and it should develop 100% consensus yet again. There's a lot of banter and analysis about a few other variations below, but, while amusing, it's only 'cause people are bored or really like debate for its own sake. -Axl 14:16, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • lol all of the above, in my case, Axl. Otis 14:26, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Ooooh. Chess analysis and a little human behavioral analysis to sweeten the deal! PTWhipplebang 14:19, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
      • A little sugartits thrown in and it'll be quite the pastry. arc
    • It'd be good to start developing Ze's possible responses down below, since I clearly suck at it :) arc

VOTING

  1. VOTE by medwardstalk: Having joined the cxd6 camp (it being the best way to deal with the immediate problem of the Bishop) I'd like to put a vote in for this (After I get home from work I won't be on a computer for awhile.) Please put my name in the vote section for this when the time comes. Thanks.
  2. VOTE by He who says zonk 14:20, 3 August 2006 (PDT): I'd appreciate someone placing a vote for me when the time comes, I am going to bed now.
  3. VOTE by Otis 14:27, 3 August 2006 (PDT): Due to time zones, I have to make a pre-vote. Please consider this my vote when the polls open. Good night, all.
  4. VOTE by PTWhipplebang 16:10, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  5. VOTE by Snark 16:38, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  6. VOTE by Geedubber 17:06, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  7. VOTE by JudiciousH 17:29, 3 August 2006 (PDT): I wanted BxD5 to be playable, but it's just not so.
  8. VOTE by Kingpatzer 17:42, 3 August 2006 (PDT) : other moves may be playable, but this is simply the best, sugartits!
  9. VOTE by Marvelous 17:44, 3 August 2006 (PDT): the last few moves have been so sweet I forgot Ze still had both his bishops... problem solved.
  10. VOTE by Amorphus 17:46, 3 August 2006 (PDT): Waiting for the tunes!
  11. VOTE by Axl 17:50, 3 August 2006 (PDT): Naturally.
  12. VOTE by Teague 19:05, 3 August 2006(MDT)
  13. VOTE by SalMancini me too
  14. VOTE by --Cubzas 19:29, 3 August 2006 (PDT) Close is near
  15. VOTE by SaintPeter 20:15, 3 August 2006 (PDT) Let's not count our chickens before they hatch. But this is fun, everyone pile on Ze!
  16. VOTE by Theroachman 20:17, 3 August 2006 (PDT) Ah heck, I just go with the flow. Some other lines are tempting too, for different reasons, but let's just play it cool. If there comes a Fabuloso Chess 2 (and I hope there will), we are 1-0 in front and then we can do more exotic stuff.
  17. VOTE by V 20:58, 3 August 2006 (PDT) : hope I made it. 2 min left before deadline. Crap, writing this took 3 minutes.

Qxd6

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: qxd6
  • this is playable, but not as good in my mind as cxd6 Kingpatzer 12:51, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • ANALYSIS: 26. .. Qxd6 27. Rf1 Qc5 28. Rxf2 Qxf2 29. h3 -- white is a pawn down in an inferior position . And is still going to have trouble untangling his pieces. But there's no immediately winning threats on the board for black. Kingpatzer 12:56, 3 August 2006 (PDT)



Bxd5


Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Bxd5
Highly probable outcome
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
26. Rg1 Bxd5

27. Bxc7 Bxe4
28. Bxc4+ Kh8 (or whatever)
29. Qxf2


Alternate highly probable outcome
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
26. Rg1 Bxd5

27. Bxc7 Qxe4
28. Qxe4 Bxe4
29. Bxc4 Kh8 (or Kf8?)
Black is down a knight.

  • Ignore his bishop for a minute and try to take his e4 pawn with the bishop next move. This forks his queen and g-pawn. Looks like a good move to me. mick129 13:04, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • As discussed yesterday, this is not a good continuation. After 27. Bxc7 Black has to work to show that he really has enough compensation for his lost Knight. Snark 13:06, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • As Snark said, this was discussed yesterday and there is ample reason not to do Bxd5. Lets not get fancy, we can play simple chess and win easily. Here's this discussion: discussion - arc
  • Riddle me this:
  • Bxd5 27. Qc1 (or any similar withdrawal) - anding us two pawns for free
  • Bxd5 27. exd5 Qxc2 - black bishop for his queen, and white has no response, or;
  • Bxd5 27. Rc1 Bxc6 - white can either withdraw, or trade black bishop for queen, presumably he'd withdraw rather than making things worse;
White's response to ...Bxd5 is 27. Bxc7. Snark 13:13, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Oh, I see - it is not good at all.--Cubzas 13:10, 3 August 2006 (PDT)

White can't support the Queen's diagonal using his bishop as both positions are covered by black

    • This was all covered with yesterday's move. With perfect play, Bxd5 isn't "bad" for Black but the advantage is no where near as strong as after cxd6, when White will have to give up huge material to avoid mate. It's a clearly better, safer move. Snark 13:10, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • I checked through tons of variations yesterday for this move. They all fail for black. Please do not vote for this move. Black may as well resign if you play this. V 13:09, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Humor me. I'm back after a long hiatus and want to see this played out. The move history is too verbose for me to find the relevant sections of prior discussion. medwardstalk
      • Can you click here and read it?
        • I've seen that link multiple times and it sucks for a review of the discussion in question. It's too dense and undervisualized to jump into and should have been moved into a challenge sub-page. medwardstalk
          • I can understand that, but it also sucks to have someone ask us to simply re-type all that we typed yesterday because you don't want to invest the time to simply read it. Snark 13:24, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
      • Here's a line just FYI. Bxd5 27. Bxc7 Bxe4 28. Bxc4+ and we lose our rook. The main question is what do you do to protect the diagonal our king is one once you remove the white pawn? If not 27. ... Bxe4 pins the bishop to that square d5. It effectively removes that piece from the board unless we can figure out how to get white's bishop next to our rook. V 13:14, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
      • May I suggest 27. ... Qxe4 instead? A very dominant and supported position in the middle of the board, and enabling some moves heading into the corner that I won't bother evaluating until I see your response. medwardstalk
        • As I said, may I suggest you read the previous discussion? ...Qxe4 fails 28. Qxe4 Bxe4 29. Bxc4+ and White wins. Snark 13:19, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
          • Read above! That's the analysis I wanted Snark. I don't like this line much anymore. For the record, people won't be interested in jumping in if you refer them to overly dense previous discussions. medwardstalk
            • If we go through all of the variations you can think of as to what we can play, we will end up with a discussion just as dense as the last one. This conversation will be just as dense, but you will be asking the questions instead of the people who previously did, and the same people will be typing the same answer. arc
    • If he doesn't take the bishop immediately, we fork his queen (if he does, we take the queen for free). If we fork his queen and he moves the queen, we take the white g pawn with the bishop. He takes with the castle, we take with the queen, and it's over. How does this not work? He who says zonk 13:16, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Ok, I see the problem, but it's not in the move, we just need to move our king first (this move) and then run Bxd5 next move. He who says zonk 13:19, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • The trouble is, moving our king after that move costs us our rook. Otis 13:19, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
      • No, I'm saying *now* we move our king, then *next move* we begin the Bxd5 line.
        • Got it, I figured that out after I hit enter, sorry. I'd like to see responses to this move submission ( 26. ... Kh8) before committing to taking the bishop first (26. ... cxd6), please. Otis 13:24, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • The second "highly likely" outcome is wrong. Correctly played, the most we lose is a bishop, for his queen. This isn't a trading queens move, if used correctly. He who says zonk 13:40, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Please state the correct line and I'll update it. Keep in mind this is the black queen takes e4 variation. The table above it is the black bishop takes e4 variation. V 13:51, 3 August 2006 (PDT)


Kh8


Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Kh8
  • This allows us to play Bxd5 next turn as Ze will no longer be able to get us in check and take our rook. I would like to see analysis of how this would play out. He who says zonk 13:29, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • As a result of the discussion I agree we shouldn't play this move. He who says zonk 14:09, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • After 26...Kh8 27. Bxc7 Bxd5 we've simply transposed to the "best" continuation after 26...Bxd5. That is, it's not losing for Black but it's hard to show compensation for the Knight and it's nowhere as good as ...cxd6 when we clean up. Snark 13:31, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • I'd rather easily pick up the bishop now while we have the opportunity. The only reason to move h8 is in preparation for the various Bxd5 lines and I'd rather see where he's going before we position ourselves for that. medwardstalk
      • I'm not against taking the bishop now but it gives him more moves to escape from the queen fork. Once our king is moved I don't see any reason to hold back from the Bxd5 line but if we want to gain a bishop now and risk letting his queen escape, by all means. He who says zonk 13:38, 3 August 2006 (PDT)

I guess what I'm saying is it seems a bit silly to abandon Bxd5 just because we can't play it now He who says zonk 13:46, 3 August 2006 (PDT)

  • The Queen fork is not going to happen. There is no forcing variation that makes it so. It's a pretty thing but it is not our best plan. Take the bishop now, while we can. Snark 13:47, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • By playing cxd5 we aren't abandoning it. If we played Qxd5 we would be. arc
  • Zonk, please consider this line: 26. ... Kh8 27. Bxc7 Bxd5 28. Qd1 Bxe4 29. Bf1 Bxg2+ 30. Bxg2 Rxg2 31. Rxg2 and we've let him out of the bag. Check the line to see if I've got it right, but I think he can get out if we go this way. Otis 13:52, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Otis, I think 29.Bf3 (after 29. Bf1 Black plays ...Qc6) Bxf3 30. gxf3 Qc6 31. Bxb6 Rxa2 is more likely, and Black is indeed better here, but only by a pawn. It compares poorly to the bludgeoning Ze will receive after 26...cxd6. (Broken record, I know.) Snark 13:58, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • I agree. Qd1 and Bf1 are key to white getting out and are easily playable while having threats of their own. V 13:56, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Zonk, I know you want to stick it to him NOW, but it doesn't appear that we can get there just yet. If we're patient and careful, we'll get him. Otis 14:02, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Alright, I agree we shouldn't follow this line. It wasn't so much about sticking it to him now, I just wanted something with a bit of flavour. It just feels like we're beating him by brute force / by playing like a computer would. As I said above, I never had any problem with taking the bishop. No hard feelings, the game is our game, not my game. :) He who says zonk 14:06, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
      • It does seem a bit mechanical, but I think playing any other way would be losing. We can't expect to spring a trap on him in this medium and attempting to be too clever will fall apart when a vote goes the wrong way. arc
    • No hard feelings at all on this end, Zonk, I appreciate your input and was hoping this was the answer as much (if not more) than you were, lol Otis 14:10, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Ummm... well, I've been looking at various lines and I can't see black coming out worse than being two pawns ahead. I think this line *IS* playable. V 14:12, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Ah no. We end up a piece down. Missed an obvious variation. It comes down to us having to protect our king again because the white queen has the d file, and we lose tempo and white can protect its last piece, thus putting it ahead of black. BTW, it requires white to move the bishop to safety on his very next move. Anything else an we come out ahead. V 14:15, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
      • Very interesting. I almost feel compelled to vote for this line. I just want to see if Ze is smart enough to move his bishop to safety next move. I guess it translates to giving your nearly dead opponent a last chance to save his ass. Foolish, perhaps, but oh so tempting... Theroachman 20:06, 3 August 2006 (PDT)

Discuss Ze's Responses to cxd6

I've written a haiku for Ze. "Nothing for me now, All pieces will surely die, Seppuku it is" - arc

Qd1

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
26. Rg1 cxd6
27. Qd1

27...Nc5 or ...Nf6. Seem about the same to me. 27....Qxe4 28. Bf3 is annoying so let's wait to take the e4 pawn. Snark 14:22, 3 August 2006 (PDT)

  • I think I like Nf6 a little bit more because it places the knight in a position that they could aid in a checkmate down the line, if for whatever reason we lay off e4.arc
    • Yeah, that's a good point. But the knight on c5 also attacks the pawn on a4. Snark 14:52, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
      • That's definitely the good thing about Nc5 vs Nf6. Nc5 is probably the better move for long term play, I'm thinking there should be a mate in here somewhere before the endgame though. The one thing about threatening a4 is that if we did move Nxa4, Ze's Qxa4 puts us in a bit (just a bit) of trouble. Of course, threatening isn't the same as taking, and it's easy enough to wait until his queen moves, which she'll have to at some point. arc
        • Well, I don't think there is a forced mate, unfortunately. We'll probably end up with exchanged queens about three connected passed pawns in the center. If Ze doesn't resign, that is. Snark 15:01, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • 27....Qxe4 28. Bf3 Qc2 wins us at least one pawn. Geedubber 17:33, 3 August 2006 (PDT)


Qd2

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
26. Rg1 cxd6
27. Qd2

27...Qxe4 Snark 14:22, 3 August 2006 (PDT)

  • This is just harsh. I think out of all of Ze's responses this is the one that would end the game the quickest (well, besides something like Bd1). arc
    • After 26. Rg1 cxd5 27. Qd2 Qxe4 - Ze could move Bf3. I think that after a queen trade, it works out to him being only a pawn down. mick129
      • After 26. Rg1 cxd5 27. Qd2 Qxe4 28. Bf3 we play 28...Qxf3 29. gxf3 Rxd2 and we're up a piece and two pawns already and about to start picking off Ze's pawns one by one. It's an easy win. Snark 15:17, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
      • I'm just going to shut up now and let the real chess players do their thing. :) arc
      • Though I do believe 28. Bf3 Rxd2 29. Bxe4 Rxa2 gives us a knight as well. arc


Nc1

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
26. Rg1 cxd5
27. Nc1

27. ...Nc5 or 27...Nf6. Seem about the same to me. Snark 14:20, 3 August 2006 (PDT)

  • Sorry, I'm an idiot. We should play ...Bxd5 here. Snark 14:58, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • I'll bet my sugartits this is his move, though I think Qd1 is better for him because it avoids Bxd5. arc
  • really, i'm not sure what white does at this point. I have a hard time finding a line that doesn't put him down 4 or 5 pawns or a piece and 3 pawns by move 31 . . . he's just flat out lost now Kingpatzer 17:53, 3 August 2006 (PDT)


g3

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
26. Rg1 cxd5
27. g3

27...Bxd5 is killer. Snark 14:20, 3 August 2006 (PDT)

  • Absolutely - This would allow for Bxd5 in a beautiful way. mick129 15:01, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Yeah, that's pretty rough. I'm guessing either Nc1 or Qd1. I hear that knight is his MVP, I can't imagine he wants to keep it on the side any longer. arc


our response to Ze's demise

Anyone want to vote on if we buy Ze a consolation prize for letting us have this much fun? I haven't pledged yet, but I'll toss in a few bucks to get him one of his books anyway. This game has been a hoot. I realize we don't have to, after all, he's lost (well not yet, but soon), but it'd be kind of cool to treat him to something off his list for letting us have all this fun. Kingpatzer 17:58, 3 August 2006 (PDT)

  • Why not Das Max und Moritz Buch? It's what we were going to buy him when we weren't sure how much money we could raise. Heh...that sounds funny now. PTWhipplebang 18:04, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Also, I don't think it makes much sense to buy him something too expensive, since technically we don't owe him anything. PTWhipplebang 18:06, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Sounds like a good plan. Lets set up voting for this. It's very arrogant to work on a consolation prize before we have won, that's why I love the idea. arc
  • I would definitely kick in something for the consolation prize. I think that's a great idea. This has been fun! Snark
  • I agree, I mean after all, he brings a few minuets of quality entertainment to us for free every day. M4cfr34k 02:08, 4 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Me too. I haven't been participating, or even following very closely (no time), but it has been fun to watch it progress. I'll kick in. --Sford 09:10, 4 August 2006 (PDT)
  • I'd kick in if it's the lowest cost book in the list. [bkeyport]
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