Talk:Fabuloso Friday 2/Fabuloso Chess/Move28

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detailed history | current 3d view
Ze Us consensus
1 d4 d5 56%
2 c4 e6 66%
3 Nc3 Bb4 48%
4 Nf3 Nf6 82%
5 e3 Ne4 56%
6 Qc2 f5 62%
7 Bd3 O-O 83%
8 O-O b6 61%
9 a3 Bxc3 57%
10 bxc3 Ba6 65%
11 Ne5 Nd7 37%
12 Nc6 Qf6 89%
13 f3 Nd6 100%
14 e4 dxc4 100%
15 Be2 e5 100%
16 d5 Nb8 55%
17 Nb4 Bb7 93%
18 a4 a5 100%
19 Na2 Nd7 50%
20 Ba3 Rac8 50%
21 Rab1 Qg5 60%
22 Kh1 fxe4 61%
23 fxe4 Qg6 89%
24 Rxf8+ Rxf8 100%
25 Bxd6 Rf2 100%
26 Rg1 cxd6 100%
27 Qd1 Nf6 73%
28 Bf3 Nxe4 93%
29 Nc1 Rd2 53%
30 Bxe4 Rxd1 100%
31 Bxg6 Rxg1+ 100%
32 Kxg1 hxg6 100%
33 Resign ---

Voting CLOSED: Nxe4 Wins

Rxa2 - 1 Vote

Nxe4 - 13 Votes

Today's Suggested Moves have been posted, and the voting polls will open Monday, 7 August @7PM EDT and close at Tuesday, 8 August @12AM EDT (Monday Night), in order to give time for enough deliberation before the votes are cast. Don't have a username/Id yet? Get one here! and take some credit for your contributions!

Remember to check back even if you've already cast your vote! .. there's still some disagreement between potential moves .. and analysis will most likely continue up until Sunday night when the polls close. It's also not too late to submit a vote for another move that has not been evaluated yet .. (although it looks like we have most of the best move options available, people can always miss things).


  • (very) Rough draft of the Fabuloso Chess Edit Guide is now up and located here


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 <!-- ==Speculative Move== -->

 <!-- REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD

  REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD -->

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Just follow the instructions, and completely delete those lines .. and don't forget to replace 'Speculative Move' with the actual move name. Also bear in mind that anything after the clear tag won't be visible, so don't enter any text underneath it (unless you're adding another section)

Voting Instructions

Cut and paste the following to vote

# '''VOTE''' by ~~~~: add a comment! 
  • You may vote for many moves as you like, but only one vote per move.
  • When voting closes, the move with the most votes wins.
  • If there is a tie, whoever tallies the votes breaks the tie.

Strategy Discussion

Current Position
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last Move: Bf3

Contents



Please take the time to familiarize yourself with some common middlegame tactics as well.

Also, please don't be too hesitant to suggest your own move in this section. Just use * to begin a line and add your idea, even if you aren't familiar with notation, or don't feel comfortable updating the boards/suggestions yourself, there are plenty of us that will be more than willing to set them up for you (and keep everything organized) ├črigaderant


Suggested Move Summary

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Rxa2
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Nxe4
Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Bc8
Suggested position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested move: Nxd5


Rxa2

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Rxa2


Potential response
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Potential Line:

28. Bf3 Rxa2
29. Qb1 Rxa4
30. Qxb6


Potential response
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Potential Line:

28. Bf3 Rxa2
29. Qb1 Rxa3
30. Qxb6 Rxb3
31. Qxb3 cxb3


  • Say goodnight, good knight. MalteseFalcon 13:12, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
    • What is Ze's response to this? Qb1 forks our rook and our pawn, no? PTWhipplebangSR! 13:52, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Yeah, I was about to say, something like 29. Qb1 Rf2 30. Qxb6 and then our bishop is threatened and we can't mount an attack along the diagonal? JudiciousH
      • That doesn't sound optimal for us. PTWhipplebangSR! 13:56, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
    • What about 29. Qb1 Rxa4 30. Qxb6 Rb4 31. Qxb4 axb4 ? Nevermind. I forgot about his pawn there. PTWhipplebangSR! 13:59, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
      • Wouldn't Ze play cxb4 instead of Qxb4? MalteseFalcon 14:01, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
        • What if we just went Ra3 instead of Rxa4? then 30. Qxb6 Rb3 31. Qxb3 cxb3 ? PTWhipplebangSR! 14:14, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
          • All we're going to manage to do is make Ze move his queen, and his queen has some fun places to move. arc
  • Taking the knight puts us a piece up when it matters most and besides trading up is always a +. This also leaves the rook in a good place as we're ultimately going to have to reposition our queen for the final attack. I think we will regret not doing this later on. Let's do something that he can't answer. Animegod 19:07, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
  • I'm not really sure what that third board means, there isn't a piece at a3 or b3 for our rook to take. Also, as Arc pointed out above, there is nothing compelling Ze to take our rook at b3. He could just as easily move Qxd6. PTWhipplebangSR! 20:00, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Voting

  1. VOTE by Animegod 19:07, 7 August 2006 (PDT):






Nxe4

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Nxe4


Potential Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Potential Line:

28. Bf3 Nxe4
29. Bxe4 Qxe4

Continue with our original plan. If he moves BxN, I think we can move in with Qh6, right? PTWhipplebangSR! 13:28, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

  • Hmmm, I don't see Qh6 as a winning response, we wouldn't be any closer to a mate and we'd be giving him material. I'm pretty blind though. What line were you thinking with Qh6? arc
    • I'm honestly not sure. I think I posted without thinking enough about it. I'm not sure that moving our rook to take his knight is the best idea either, although we may get a pawn or two out of it as well. PTWhipplebangSR! 13:43, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
      • This line is nice because if he doesn't respond to the knight he can be mated pretty quickly. Rxa2 looks nice, patz had some arguments against it thought that lose us some tempo and put on defense for awhile, but we still pick up some nice material. For this one, I'm trying to figure out how things might progress after BxN in a positive direction. QxB is okay and then we can follow with Bxd, but I'm expecting there is a better response, since I am pretty sure we can't mate with the B, R, and Q in that position. We can Rx his pawn which should lead something nice for us though. - arc
  • Yeah, I thought it'd be QxB at that point, with our next move hopefully being our bishop taking d5. JudiciousH
    • That makes a lot more sense. I still don't know what I was thinking. PTWhipplebangSR! 13:49, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
  • I was hopeful we could mate Ze in this corner, but I've given up that dream. The most likely line I see is 28. Bf3 Nxe4 29. Bxe4 Qxe4 30. Qe1 Qxe1 31. Rxe1 Rxa2 and then we're picking off pawns (Bxd5, Rxa4)bobby_macrap at me
    • Yeah, it's a bummer because it feels like it should be possible to mate. Trading down at this point, especially with the center pawns toast, is fine by me though. arc
  • If we somehow get the bishop to d5 while keeping the queen and rook where they are then we *might* be able to mate by attacking g2 first with the rook and then with the queen...but it's not likely to go down that way.bobby_macrap at me
  • Even then, if we attack g2 with the rook he can ignore it with his rook. At that point though we can play discover check on him and take his queen, but as you said, I doubt he's going to sit idly by and let us destroy him. arc
  • How about picking up his pawns by: 29. Nc1 Nc3 30. Qe1 Rc3 Cubzas 14:20, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
    • If he doesn't take our knight with his bishop, then we move 29. ... Ng3+. PTWhipplebangSR! 14:23, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
      • Yes, that's very, very dangerous for white. 30. hxg3 Qxg3 and I believe the piper begins playing. arc
        • Nevermind, it's not quite that simple, white can help himself out with 31. Rf1 I think. arc
  • I forget who it was, probably Patz, pointed out that he'll have to do Bxe4 or else Ng3+ leads to mate in two or three moves (29. Nc1 Ng3+ 30. hxg3 Qh6+ 31. Qh5 Qxh5++)bobby_macrap at me
    • The bishop is still on f3 in this case, so it would probably be 31. Bh5 which does stop the mate for a bit. It's still not a very desirable situation for white. arc
      • Yeah, my point was that the bishop AND queen have to stay on the d1-h5 diagonal or there's a mate. So I do think BxN will be more or less forced in response. Kingpatzer 15:50, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
    • So I think one of our biggest advantages here is that if we move Nxe4, Ze's next move is forced, which lets us plan a little further ahead. PTWhipplebangSR! 14:28, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
      • Excuse me, arc, you're right. I missed that. It's not mate...but the bishop would be pinned and the Queen would be limited in her movements to those that kept the bishop protected. Nasty for white.bobby_macrap at me
  • Since no one has suggested another move besides Bxe4 that is useful, should we assume that that will be the move? Maybe there's a problem with it, but if no one speaks their piece I'm sure they'll just yell at us for it a few days from now. In any event, if we assume that's the move, do we think Qxe4 puts us in a good spot? I'll put up a board. arc
    • This looks like an ok position. I'm trying to figure out what white's response would be; maybe trying to initiate the queen exchange? PTWhipplebangSR! 14:49, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
      • That's my only guess. He can move Nc1 but that really doesn't help Bxd5 very much. He can't move his rook or he'll be mated, and his farr ight pawn would just be a silly move. arc
      • The only place I can see him exchanging on is 29. e1, then 29. e1 Qxe1 30. Rxe1 Rxa2 and we are looking pretty damn fine. arc
      • Yeah. It looks like that's the only way he can guarantee a queen exchange. Anything else and he winds up down quite a bit. PTWhipplebangSR! 15:02, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
      • What about 30. Qe1 Re2 ? PTWhipplebangSR! 15:03, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
        • I think at this point I don't have much interest in having our queens on the board. A Qxe1 exchange will leave us with a ton of protected and movable pawns, and a piece up. No need to chance it when the end game is insured that way. arc
          • I see what you mean. I think our move numbers from the last couple comments are one behind. I'm correcting mine. PTWhipplebangSR!
      • As far as I can see, white only has a few moves that he can really consider. Re1, Nc1, h3, Rf1 and Bxe4 are the moves I'd consider if I were white. I'd look at Bh5 but would quickly realize that trading down doesn't help me much. Nc1 doesn't seem quick enough, so I think the real choice is between Re1, h3 and BxN. I'd be tempted to play BxN on material grounds, but I think that's the worst move here for white. Re1 seems to try and make something happen, but again, I think it's too slow. I think h3 is the best move. He needs to give his king a little space to avoid cheap mates. So I think we'll se the next few moves as: 28. .. Nxe4 29. h3 Rxa2 30. Qb1 Nf2+ 31. Kh2 Qxb1 32. Rxb1 Now the queens are off the board and our simple pawn majority will win the day. Kingpatzer 16:01, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Please count this as my vote when the polls open. Good night, all. Otis 15:43, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
  • at worst it wins us another pawn and piece for a piece (if he plays BxN). It avoids any issues with allowing his queen activity along the B-file (Qb1 in response to Rxa2), and it frees us up to snatch up the d5 pawn and bring the bishop into the attack in the next few moves. i really want RxB to work here, but it doesn't, so this'll have to do :) Kingpatzer 15:47, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Voting

  1. VOTE by Otis 15:43, 7 August 2006 (PDT): Please count this as my vote when the polls open. Good night, all.
  2. VOTE by bobby_macrap at me:It's not a quick victory, but this still works out the best for us.
  3. VOTE by Captainmnb 16:15, 7 August 2006 (PDT): Just seems like the strongest move right now, and keeps him playing our game instead of the other way around.
  4. VOTE by PTWhipplebangSR! 16:17, 7 August 2006 (PDT): This seems the strongest of the moves suggested so far.
  5. VOTE by Arc 19:40, 7 August 2006 (EST):
  6. VOTE by Argonbeam3500 Stick with the plan; Rxa2 will still be there next move.
  7. VOTE by Jeff 17:36, 7 August 2006 (PDT): looks best to me
  8. VOTE by Anonymous
  9. VOTE by SalMancini yes yes
  10. VOTE by BKeyport
  11. VOTE by Snark 20:29, 7 August 2006 (PDT): I'm late to the party but this is the move. Don't take the forbidden fruit on a2. Use the Force, Luke!
  12. VOTE by Marvelous 20:34, 7 August 2006 (PDT):
  13. VOTE by Kingpatzer 20:37, 7 August 2006 (PDT) : this seems to keep the pressure up on white and gives him the most problems to deal with


Bc8

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Bc8

I've kind of been toying with Bc8, but don't know how to do the wiki thing, and frankly, am still smarting from the "those who suggest moves only to be corrected by those with computers" comment from yesterday. But I'd like to talk that move over if anyone is willing. Otis 15:11, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

  • 28. ... Bc8 or 30. ... Bc8? Either way, I'm open to discussing it. PTWhipplebangSR! 15:13, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Sorry, 28. ... Bc8. I don't think we have to take e4 just yet. Moving the bishop along the diagonal may help an attack, it would just depend on white's move after Bc8. That's what I want to discuss. What would white do after 28. ... Bc8? Otis 15:16, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
      • 29. Rf8 would get our rook out of its current spot. I suspect he'd do the safe Nc1 to save his knight and try and bring it back into play.
  • I put your move up. Don't worry about suggesting moves, I don't even know what I'm talking about. I just try and prove my point until I find out I'm completely wrong. Either way it advances the discussion. arc
    • The people who usually prove me wrong aren't here right now, I should note. :) I'm not a big fan of this move though, it doesn't help with a mate and it removes pressure on his center pawns. arc
    • Yeah you know the more I look at it the more it just seems like a wasted move. Never mind. Otis 15:30, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
      • I don't think it's that bad of an idea. Gives the bishop a nice diagonal to move into the attack on and join the fun. I think Nxe4 is stronger, but this certainly isn't a bad idea. The one thing I'd worry about is that it gives him enough time to activate his knight. He has time to play Nc1 now and now Nxe4 isn't quite as powerfull. I don't think it lets white into the game, but it seems to let the pressure off a little. Kingpatzer 15:54, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
      • I followed the line from white's position, and what I'd do if I was white would be to play: 28. ... Bc8 29. Re1 Nxe4 30. Bxe4 Qf6 31. Qe1 and we lose our rook. Probably not good. Otis 16:04, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
        • 31. .. Qc2 is ok for us in that line, Otis. Kingpatzer 16:05, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
          • How do you see this line going, if we played Bc8, Patz? Never mind, I can't see this as being better than Nxe4 - I can't find the line that lets us save our rook with Bc8. Thanks for considering it, though. Otis 16:08, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Nxd5

Proposed move
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Nxd5
Potential line?
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
29. Pxd5 e4 30. Bxe4 Qxe4

I've been playing with Nxd5 in my head. If ze responds with 29. exd5 e4 and his bishop is pretty much out of running room. 30. Be2 Bxd5...I know it's a trade down, but it seems to do a heck of a lot of development, to me. That's about as far as I can run the line, though - is there anything here? --AtteSmythe 15:43, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Is this the line you were thinking? If so, I kind of like it, but I'm not positive that's what Ze would do with 30. --Icrywolf

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