Talk:Fabuloso Friday 2/Fabuloso Chess/Move30-34

From zefrank

Jump to: navigation, search
detailed history | current 3d view | |all moves
Ze Us consensus
27 Qd1 Nf6 73%
28 Bf3 Nxe4 93%
29 Nc1 Rd2 53%
30 Bxe4 Rxd1 100%
31 Bxg6 Rxg1+ 100%
32 Kxg1 hxg6 100%
33 Resign ... 100%
34 ... ... 100%
35 ... ...
36 ... ...
Ze may also play up to any line that matches:
33. ANY Bxd5
34. ANY Bc6
33 and 34 are conditional that Ze doesn't put any piece or pawn in harm's way cuz then we may wanna take.

Voting CLOSED: 30. Rxd1 31. Bxg6 Rxg1+ 32. Kxg1 hxg6 33. ANY Bxd5 34. ANY Bc6

Our proposal this time was that if Ze wants to continue along this line, we will commit to make these moves, so he can submit more than one move at a time. Our only caveat is that if he moves his knight to a position where it can be captured, we don't want to take the moves we've marked for 33. and 34. (or Ze could just go a move at a time, and pretend we just moved "Rxd1")

No on 35. ANY Bxa4 - 7 votes

Yes on 35. ANY Bxa4 - 4 Votes

No on 34. ANY Bc6 - 5 votes

Yes on 34. ANY Bc6 - 6 Votes

No on 33. ANY Bxd5 - 4 votes

Yes on 33. ANY Bxd5 - 7 Votes

No on move 30. Rxd1 31. Bxg6 Rxg1+ 32. Kxg1 hxg6 - 0 votes

Yes on 30. Rxd1 31. Bxg6 Rxg1+ 32. Kxg1 hxg6 - 11 Votes


Today's Suggested Moves have been posted, The voting will remain closed until move 35 comes about. Don't have a username/Id yet? Get one here! and take some credit for your contributions!

  • (very) Rough draft of the Fabuloso Chess Edit Guide is now up and located here


Use the following tags to help suggest moves, and remember if you want to throw up an example speculative board in the discussion, please refer to the Edit Guide on how to properly format it.

 <!-- ==Speculative Move== -->

 <!-- REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD

  REMOVE THIS LINE TO INSERT BOARD -->

 <!-- MAKE CERTAIN YOU ADD A COMMENT TO JUSTIFY THIS POSITION-->

{{clear}}

Just follow the instructions, and completely delete those lines .. and don't forget to replace 'Speculative Move' with the actual move name. Also bear in mind that anything after the clear tag won't be visible, so don't enter any text underneath it (unless you're adding another section)

Voting Instructions

Cut and paste the following to vote

# '''VOTE''' by ~~~~: add a comment! 
  • You may vote for many moves as you like, but only one vote per move.
  • When voting closes, the move with the most votes wins.
  • If there is a tie, whoever tallies the votes breaks the tie.

Strategy Discussion

Current Position
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last Move: hxg6

Contents



Please take the time to familiarize yourself with some common endgame tactics as well.

Also, please don't be too hesitant to suggest your own move in this section. Just use * to begin a line and add your idea, even if you aren't familiar with notation, or don't feel comfortable updating the boards/suggestions yourself, there are plenty of us that will be more than willing to set them up for you (and keep everything organized) ├črigaderant


Suggested Move Summary

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Rxd1
Position after 32...hxg6
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
30. Bxe4 Rxd1

31. Bxg6 Rxg1+
32. Kxg1 hxg6
[33. ANY (Bxd5)]


Rxd1

Suggested Position
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Suggested Move: Rxd1
Result of "forced" moves
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
30. Bxe4 Rxd1

31. Bxg6 Rxg1+
32. Kxg1 hxg6
33. Ne2 (or whatever) Bxd5
34. Victory for black

Initiates the queen exchange. PTWhipplebangSR! 12:22, 9 August 2006 (PDT) The next 3 moves are absolutely forced. Have a nice weekend! - Axl 12:31, 9 August 2006 (PDT)

  • 30...Rxd1
  • 31.Bxg6 Rxg1+
  • 32.Kxg1 hxg6
  • agreed. nothing to see here. just play the "only" moves. Kingpatzer 12:51, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Yep. We will never again move that rook in anger. :-) Snark 13:20, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
    • Oops, except when we take on Rg1. Duh. Snark 13:22, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Why wouldn't Ze do 31. Rxd1? That sacrifices his B to keep his R... Al
    • 'Cause then we have a queen and he doesn't? PTWhipplebangSR! 13:27, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
      • I see the point, but I can't help wondering if there might be an out for him anyway... Al 13:38, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
        • There isn't, it's over. If you can show me a way he can win or draw with us actually playing (as opposed to us sleeping), I'll reconsider. arc
        • There aren't any other votes, but please add my vote when the time comes. arc
  1. VOTE by Llogg 18:40, 9 August 2006 (PDT): I guess we still have to vote even if this is the only move under consideration.
  2. VOTE by Snark 20:05, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
  3. VOTE by Kingpatzer 20:47, 9 August 2006 (PDT) : not sure if this vote is needed or not

After move 33

Danger squares for Ze
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
Image:chess_zver_22.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_22.png
Image:chess_zhor_22.png
30. Bxe4 Rxd1

31. Bxg6 Rxg1+
32. Kxg1 hxg6
33. Ne2 (or whatever) Bxd5
34. ??? Kf8 35. ??? Ke7

The only place pawn I see him able to attack in the short term is the pawn on d6 (3 moves), and then only after we move our bishop off the long diagnal to capture a4. If we move our king first to protect that pawn, it looks like there's no quick way he can attack with his knight.

  • His path to d6 would be Ne2, Ng3, Ne4 (only after our bishop moves) and finally Nxd6.
  • His path to c4 looks like Ne2, Ng3, Nf1, Ne3, Nxc4.

Given this, I think it's more likely he'll advance his pawns on g and h or move his king to defend the a and c files than position his knight to attack.bobby_macrap at me

  • He could also do Ne2, Ng3, h4 and attack our pawn on g3 in three moves.bobby_macrap at me
  • It is perfectly safe for us to say 33. ANY Bxd5 34. ANY Bc6 35. any Bxa4. There is nothing Ze can do to stop us from taking those two pawns, and nothing he can do in 3 moves that would require us to respond differently than those moves. They may not be entirely optimal, but they'll win easily enough. Just toss in the caveat that if he puts his knight en prise to our pawn or bishop we will take/exchange, otherwise Bxd5-Bc6-Bxa4.Kingpatzer 14:32, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
    • What if Ze's knight is on g3 after 35. ... Bxa4? V 20:44, 9 August 2006 (PDT)


30-32 proposal (30. Rxd1 31. Bxg6 Rxg1+ 32. Kxg1 hxg6 33. ANY Bxd5)

  • In the interests of moving the game forward, I can see NO valid options for Ze after 30. Rxd1 besides 31. Bxg6 Rxg1+ 32. Kxg1 hxg6. 33. ANY Bxd5 I am making a proposal that along with our move we also submit this track to Ze. If he has any other ideas besides Bxg6 and Kxg1 then we can continue as normal, but otherwise this should keep us from deliberating for three more days than really ought to be necessary. If ze agrees to the proposal than he could just start with 33. arc
    • To be clear, if we wanted to follow through with the proposal we'd be voting for Rxg1+ and Kxg1 as well as Rxd1. I realize this is sort of "cheating" by moving things ahead, but I can't see anyone complaining. If there is dissent then we can reconsider instead of holding a strict vote, as we are bending the rules. arc
    • I don't know. If Ze agrees to it then it should be ok. I'm sure that he knows that the next few moves are forced, but maybe we should give him those days to think about what he is going to do afterward. Jes ter23 13:10, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
      • He can always say no. Lets leave what Ze thinks of this to Ze. If he disagrees with this he can just say no and our move is solely 30. Rxd1, no harm, no foul. arc
        • And (in case anyone is worried) if Ze does say no, we haven't given anything away. If he wants to make a different move, then our moves will have to be different too. It's already clear that we're trying to trade queens. PTWhipplebangSR! 13:15, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
  • The next several moves are basically forced. We can state a list of moves and tell Ze that he can accept any amount of those moves if he wants and then we play on from there. As soon as Ze plays something different from the list, we continue on as normal. V 13:46, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
    • I don't think our list should go past move 32. We can reassess our plan after that move if Ze accepts the proposal. PTWhipplebangSR! 13:51, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
      • Agreed! It'll move the game two moves ahead. V 13:57, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
        • Should we put this up to a vote or just let naysayers chime in if they disagree? PTWhipplebangSR! 14:00, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
          • I figure a yes/no vote at the normal 7pm time would be good. arc
  • this is very common in coorespondance chess. just send him our move with "if .. then .. " moves. He can accept the moves up to wherever he deviates from our analysis. Example:

" if 31. Bxg6 then Rxg1+ if 32. Kxg1 then hxg6. "

I personally think we could do some analysis of possible response for ze at move 33 and go even further down this path. for example 33. if K-any then Bxd5, if 33.g-any then Bxd5, if 33. h-any then Bxd5, if 33. N-any then Bxd5 ... actually is there anything he would do at move 33 that we don't respond by taking the pawn, and after taking the pawn we probably move Bc6 to pick off the a pawn . .. I think we can safetly say 33. any Bxd5 34. any Bc6 35. any Bxa4 :)Kingpatzer 14:14, 9 August 2006 (PDT)

  • The only problem here is voting on the diversions, it would get pretty complicated with the if else's. arc
    • I think up to 34 is good for me. Lets not push it too much and play a pseudo-optimal endgame. :) arc
      • what diversions? I'm proposing we follow your analysis through move 33, then we say "no matter what you do, with the exception of putting your knight en prise to our pawns/bishop, we're going to play Bxd5, then Bc6 then Bxa4. If you put your knight en prise, we'll take it." Kingpatzer14:44, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
        • I meant trying to do it all the way up to like 38, not up to 33. I'm out of here, please put in a vote yes for this later for me (up to and including ANY Bxd5). arc
        • I think we should go through move 33 tonight, then, if Ze is open to this kind of play, we can do something similar tomorrow. PTWhipplebangSR! 14:50, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Maybe the way we could settle this is to have everybody sign on to a proposal for how many moves in advance we should submit, and any vote for a move (for instance, 35) is also a vote to submit all the previous moves in the same line (34, 33, etc.). Then we would submit all the moves that command a majority. That way people wouldn't be faced with the challenge of voting strategically, trying to choose the exact number of moves that other people are going to want to submit. JudiciousH
    • Yikes, is it up to me to submit? We're late already! I counted a majority up through 34, but not 35. Here's how I tallied the votes: Arc against, PT for, me for, bobby for, Anime was ambiguous so no, V for, Bit no, Llogg seems to want to play the later moves because that's when the issue with the knight he discusses comes up, Jeff against, Snark against, Patzer for. So move 34 has 6 in favor and 5 against. A few more people were against 35, so no majority for that. JudiciousH

Since it's what's written in the heading, I think the voting is on moves up to 33. ANY Bxd5. Nevermind. I like what JudiciousH said above. PTWhipplebangSR! 16:53, 9 August 2006 (PDT)

  • The problem with going up to 33 is that his knight could move on 33 into b3 or d3. So we need to say any but those moves BitBender 17:15, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
    • We'll tell Ze that any move that puts his knight in jeopardy, we will take. V 17:30, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Why don't we just keep it to move 34 for now? I think that's enough for now. It's four moves ahead. That's a week's worth of moves. I just want to see if he moves some king side pawns or moves his knight on g3 before taking a4. I don't want his knight ending up on d6. V 17:30, 9 August 2006 (PDT)
  • Please do not submit 35. ... Bxa4. His knight can take d6 and other pawns. Can someone show me how I'm wrong here? I don't want to throw the game at the last second. And this is still only for voting up to move 32, rigth? V 20:49, 9 August 2006 (PDT)

Yes

  1. VOTE by arc: I meant trying to do it all the way up to like 38, not up to 33. I'm out of here, please put in a vote yes for this later for me (up to and including ANY Bxd5).
  2. VOTE by PTWhipplebangSR! 16:22, 9 August 2006 (PDT): I guess I can go along with the moves up to move 34 (as per V's suggestion above).
  3. VOTE by JudiciousH 16:39, 9 August 2006 (PDT) In keeping with what I suggested above, feel free to also count this as a vote for some or all of patzer's proposed moves 33-35 (33...Bxd5, 34...Bc6, 35...Bxa4 unless Ze puts his knight in a space where we can capture).
  4. 'VOTE by bobby_macrap at me: ditto what Judicious said.
  5. 'VOTE' Animegod: Why not. I only regret that we don't have a silver platter.
  6. VOTE by V 17:12, 9 August 2006 (PDT): Only up to and including move 34. I don't want to take a4 if his knight is sitting on g3.
  7. VOTE by BitBender 17:21, 9 August 2006 (PDT): Only up through 32 unless we exclude 33. Nd3 amd 33. Nb3
  8. VOTE by Llogg 18:41, 9 August 2006 (PDT): If he accepts that any move that places his knight in check will cause us to deviate and take his knight, then I'm all for this.
  9. VOTE by Jeff 19:48, 9 August 2006 (PDT): hooray for expediency
  10. VOTE by Snark 20:04, 9 August 2006 (PDT): Just like postal chess
  11. VOTE by Kingpatzer 20:45, 9 August 2006 (PDT) : anything up to Bxa4 :)
  12. VOTE by 14:52, 11 August 2006 (PDT)

No

G pawn

bobby_mac raised a good point that if Ze moves his king away the g pawn could be vulnerable but we wouldn't take it due to our previous round of strings. Since Ze is lukewarm about our conditional suggestions I think this gives us the opportunity to make contingencies for move 34 if we want to hit the g pawn, if he moved his king away. Personally I think the only reason he'd move his king away would be to take advantage of our moves, which would be clever of him. Still, it doesn't help him that much and I'm fine with trucking on to take the a pawn anyhow. arc

Personal tools