Fabuloso Chess/ArenaRoom1

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Contents

The Game - Brigade V. Kingpatzer

Move History - Bd6 Game

  8. O-O b6
  9. a3 Bd6
  10. cxd5 Nxc3
  11. bxc3 exd5
  12. c4 c6
  13. cxd5 cxd5
  14. a4 Qe7
  15. a5 bxa5
  16. Qa4 Na6
  17. Qxa5 Nb4
  18. Ba3 Be6
  19. Ne5 Nxd3
  20. Nxd3 Bxa3
  21. Rxa3 Rfc8
  22. Rfa1


Bd6 - Start Position
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last Move: 22. Rxa3 Rfc8

Move History - Bxc3 Game

  9. c5 b6
  10. a3 Bxc3
  11. bxc3 Ba6
  12. cxd5 Bxd3
  13. Qxd3 exd5
  14. c4 Nc6
  15. Bb2 Na5
  16. cxd5 Qxd5
  17. Ne5 Rfe8
  18. Qc2 c5
  19. f3 cxd4
  20. fxe4 Qxe5
  21. exd5 Qxe4
  22. Rac1 g6
  23. Qxe4
Bxc3 - Start Position
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Image:chess_zver_26.png
a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8
a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7
a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6
a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5
a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4
a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3
a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2
a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1
Image:chess_zver_26.png
Image:chess_zhor_26.png
Last Move: 22. Qxe4


Player Comments

  • Aight .. I'll play white against Bxd3 if you play white against Bc6 .. and we'll see what develops. ßrigaderant 10:00, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • sounds good Kingpatzer 10:17, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Don't forget to update the board headings with the move.  :-) ßrigaderant
  • I'm a ludite! Be glad I can figure out how to sign my name :) But I'll try! Kingpatzer 10:28, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • You're doing fine .. no worries. ßrigaderant 10:50, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • here's where it gets interesting. In the Bd6 version I'm tempted to play the intermediate move of Bd2 so that my rooks are connected, but I don't think there's any long term advantage so the captuer here is just as good. In the Bxn version I think the line with Qd6 instead of Nc6 is also worth looking at. Kingpatzer 10:53, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • We have time .. we're flying through this pretty quickly .. move submission is Sunday .. we can always bring it back after we've come to a conclusion. ßrigaderant
  • unfortunately, I have furniture to build ... have a couple of beds for my kids in the workshop that I've promised the wife I'd finish for ages now . .. Kingpatzer 11:08, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • oh ... strategy comment, I don't see how black is going to have long term success with that isolated and blocked d-pawn and the advanced f pawn in Bd6 line. This is the position I see as a long term disadvantage(not immediately losing but a huge negative) but worse, I see black has being weak on both the a2-g8 and the a3-f8 diagonals in this line. In the BxN line, the same weakness is there, but white can't exploit it nearly so easily. In the Bxc3 line I just don't see a good plan for white from here Kingpatzer 11:10, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • a5 push shows the weakness in black's pawn structure i think. Kingpatzer 11:20, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I disagree .. it'll be a handle to pry apart white's position .. watch (he's all alone with plenty of pieces to support his advance. Meanwhile .. things are beginning to look grim for black on the other board ... ßrigaderant
  • really, where? in all seriousness, I see an even game on the Bxn board and I see great attack lines on the Bd6 board. Black can't protect both the a2-g8 and the a3-f8 diagonals on that board, and that advantage will be decissive long term. But it starts from black's poor pawn position that is forced early in that variation. Kingpatzer 11:32, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I think your first post on BxN is right on .. it's just solid. Like you said "best of the exchange variations" Kingpatzer 11:48, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
    • I appreciate that .. but I think maintaining our bishop is better than trading it off .. if we settle on exchanging it I'm in agreement. Truth be told, if both games play out even, then I'll advocate personal preference and admit that they're both good moves .. but I'm still not sold on the exchange with the knight .. as evidenced by white's aggresive play (and see where we end up) ..
  • Until exd I think white has played the BxN variation very well, it's just that for every option open to white in that line that I can see, black can maintain equality. Black is winning now, but that's because exd was a mistake. with Bx it's an even game. On the flip side, white is winning the Bxd6 game and has been since 10. cxd5 precisely because the pawn structure gives white so much latitude but doesn't give black many choices. white has targets and lines there Kingpatzer 12:14, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
in all honesty, both of these games are all very natural moves with the exception of Qa4, that's a little counter-intuitive, but it's not hard to find if you're looking to own the diagonals. Kingpatzer 11:53, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
and again, it's not decissive, but it seems to me that black is working really hard in the Bd6 game to stay afloat.
  • I still think that after THIS move black's game is worse below than above .. watch how it plays out. ßrigaderant
  • white's going to a worse pawn structure heading to hte endgame .. i just don't see whatever it is you see here the bishop is only slight compensation. it's an even game. Kingpatzer 12:04, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • exd is a blunder, you need to take with a bishop to maintain equality. Kingpatzer 12:09, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Capitalize on it then .. bishop covers d5, isolated center pawn and your Knight is stranded and inactive .. play it out .. and you have to admit that white's bishop is stronger than black's Knight (pawns on both sides of the board in the endgame favors bishops).ßrigaderant
  • all things being equal that's true. The problem with most club players is that they rarely take into account what isn't equal. white has an isolated pawn and black is playing with a 2-1 pawn advantage on the queen side. Those two factors make the bishop v knight battle moot. with correct play this is a drawn game -- (whcih demonstrates that at least with us as players , BxN is a favorable move for black Kingpatzer 12:20, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • on the Bd6 board your bishop is already on d6, I assume you mean Bxa3 and I'm adusting the board accordingly if htat's wrong, please re-move Kingpatzer 12:17, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • sorry. i'm having problems iwth the other board, I knocked it back a move (I realized I didn't play it out how I had planned to .. I keep getting up also .. (same boat as you) ßrigaderant
  • no worries. i'm having problems iwth the other board, keep looking at moves and then remaking them .. i'm sticking with g6 now .... I need another chess board :) Kingpatzer 12:29, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Yea .. same thing here .. I was thinking Rfc8 for the Ba6 board .. but I think f4 is the handle to pry white's chain apart (if not mate .. play careful) .. and on the other board a queen trade favors White .. I agree that both moves are playable, but I really hope you'll come over to the Ba6 camp with me .. it really is a more powerful game. ßrigaderant 19:15, 8 July 2006 (PDT) - Board set up wrong .. i thought your knight was on e5 still, not d3 .. back to the drawing board ...
  • i'm afraid i'm just out of time to do this. i have to hit hte woodshop or the wife is going to kill me .. those beds were suppossed to be done last month :( I'll be back to finish this up tonight if you're around Kingpatzer 12:37, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • No sweat .. I'll be here (no plans tonight as I'm babysitting the little one all weekend) ßrigaderant 12:54, 8 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I probably won't be around tomorrow .. but I'd appreciate it if you'd concede that in both games the player with the bishop is in a superior position. In the Bxc3 game, you're either going to be a pawn down in a few moves, with only one rook (if you capture RxQ you're liable to lose both rooks, if you capture with your pawn, there's a rook trade that leaves you with Rook and Knight vs. Bishop, and I have the superior game, pawns will get picked off because I can check you and cover both sides of the board with my rook and my bishop covering me from a distance) and it's a winning endgame for black .. which is clearly a weaker position. The Bd6 game is winning because the bishop and queen can support each other .. while your knight is (again) too limited to play both sides of the board. At the very least, you know that the b6 move (that the community voted for) supports keeping the bishop, whereas c6 encouraged trading the bishop off. We (as a whole) decided that keeping the bishop was preferable, and it pays off throughout this game (as I've shown here, I think, rather definitively. Maybe the game isn't entirely black's in the first board (and can go either way), but you know the 2nd board is a losing proposition) .. we've played this game out for 2 weeks .. please help us have another unanimous vote. ßrigaderant
As an aside .. we both know that Ze hasn't played the best moves possible, and we've both probably played a game (in these two boards) that is stronger than he'll play. I'm not suggesting that we CAN'T win with the Bxc3, but I think it'll be easier with Bd6.
  • In all seriousness, what the hell are you looking at?? In the Bd6 game black is dead in teh water after rfa1. his center pawns on his own color complex makes his bishop weak. In the BxN game it's an even match. in other words, it's good for black. The point isn't that BxN is winning. The point is that it isn't losing. Bd6 is. We can play it out if you want, but Bd6 ends in a loss for black. BxN proceeds to an even game. In Bd6 after F4 and g3 that Bishop is uselss.Kingpatzer 09:44, 9 July 2006 (PDT)

Observer Comments Welcomed

The play in Bxc3 seems pretty good on both sides. I think Black is slightly ahead at the end but would be even better off if he'd done Qxc2 instead of g6 so as to keep his rooks ahead of White's isolated passed pawn.
Uh .. black didn't Qxc2 in the Bxc2 game .. look at the move list. I wish Kingpatzer would have played it out a few moves .. it's not obvious, but white trading queens is going to kill Black in the end. It'll be white with King/Rook/Pawn against Black with King/Rook. ßrigaderant
I think White screwed up in the Bd6 game with 13 cxd5. It would be better to keep the pressure on with Bb2. But even that improvement for White, Black's not hurting as much as I imagined he would be.
--Jeff
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