From zefrank

detailed history | current 3d view

	Ze	Us	consensus
1	d4	d5	56%
2	c4	e6	66%
3	Nc3	Bb4	48%
4	Nf3	Nf6	82%
5	e3	Ne4	56%
6	Qc2	f5	62%
7	Bd3	O-O	83%
8	O-O	b6	61%
9	a3	Bxc3	57%
10	bxc3	Ba6	65%
11	Ne5	Nd7	37%
12	Nc6	Qf6	89%
13	f3	Nd6	100%
14	e4	dxc4	100%
15	Be2	e5	100%
16	d5	Nb8	55%
17	Nb4	Bb7	93%
18	a4	a5	100%
19	Na2	Nd7	50%
20	Ba3	Rac8	50%
21	Rab1	Qg5	60%
22	Kh1	fxe4	61%
23	fxe4	Qg6	89%
24	Rxf8+	Rxf8	100%
25	Bxd6	Rf2	100%
26	Rg1	cxd6	100%
27	Qd1	Nf6	73%
28	Bf3	Nxe4	93%
29	Nc1	Rd2	53%
30	Bxe4	Rxd1	100%
31	Bxg6	Rxg1+	100%
32	Kxg1	hxg6	100%
33	Resign	---

Humble Request

I do not think it is too much to ask that anyone who does vote SIGN their vote with ~~~~. If you don't have a registered account, it takes 30 seconds and is entirely worth the time. It makes it easier to carry on conversations with everyone else about the moves and will quiet any doubters of unfair voting practice. --mayorcj^SR 21:43, 29 June 2006 (PDT)

Today's Suggested Moves will be posted after Ze's broadcast, and the voting polls will open @7PM EST and close at 12AM EST, in order to give time for enough deliberation before the votes are cast. If you cannot post a vote between 7PM and 12AM, you can vote early, just post it in the move discussion. We're trying to avoid 'early adoption' votes so that we have plenty of moves in consideration before votes are cast, but we also want to be fair to those that may have limited time or access. ßrigade^rant 23:04, 2 July 2006 (PDT)

• Cut and paste the following to vote for a section:

# '''VOTE''' by ~~~~: add a comment! 

Strategy Discussion

Contents 1 Humble Request 2 Strategy Discussion 2.1 Suggested Move Summary 2.2 c5 2.3 0-0 2.4 b6 2.5 c6 2.6 g5

Our Pawn at d5 is still being threatened by the pawn at c4, but it is protected by pawn at e6. The c3 knight no longer threatens d5, as our b4 Bishop has it pinned to his king. We have also advanced our Knight to f3 in preparation to possibly assault Ze's position, and fortified it with our pawns at d5 and f5. Ze has advanced his Bishop to d3, in preparation to castle, and simultaneously threatening our Knight, which is covered by our pawns at f5 and d5.

Also, please don't be too hesitant to suggest your own move in this section. Just use * to begin a line and add your idea, even if you aren't familiar with notation, or don't feel comfortable updating the boards/suggestions yourself, there are plenty of us that will be more than willing to set them up for you (and keep everything organized) ßrigade^rant

• What do we think Ze is doing with the bishop? Is he just moving it so he can castle or does he have SOME SORT OF DEVIOUS SCHEME AFOOT? Discuss. He who says zonk 11:36, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
• I think he's moving it so he can castle, which also unpins his knight. None of the suggested moves so far seem to address that point. What about Nd7 10. O-O Nf6? This provides one more layer of protection on the square e4. Otherwise, he could decimate our pawn structure and take that knight in exchange for a bishop and a knight. --dmatos

Suggested Move Summary

Suggested Move Pawn advance: 7. Bd3 c5	Suggested Move Castle King-side: 7. Bd3 0-0	Suggested Move Fianchetto? 7. Bd3 b6
Suggested Move Push Pawn? 7. Bd3 c6	Suggested Move Knight defense: 7. Bd3 Nd7
Suggested Move 7. Bd3 g5

c5

• I bet I sound like a broken record. Things are getting pretty intense in the middle and I'd like to let the queen have access to the entire board, not just d-h. medwards^talk
  • I think a big question is do we care to respond to his bishop attack against the knight? I don't think we need to bother all that much, and can continue to develop if we're willing to trade our knight for his bishop and recover with our pawns. -arc^blah
    • Precisely, I feel like this situation is still very tenuous and if we can spend more time developing without sacrificing pieces, I say do it. (This means almost any non-capturing move has my support at this point) medwards^talk
      • I think there were pretty convincing arguments presented in the move6 section against this. An a3 moves puts us in quite a spot. I'd like to get more pieces in the center because we're outnumbered there, but I don't think this is the move to do that with.-arc^blah
    • We need to keep our pawns chained together .. pushing to c5 (for one thing, isn't Tarrasch) and will cost us in the endgame/middlegame. Plus, our Queen is pointed where she needs to be, towards his Kingside. ßrigade^rant 11:52, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
    • c5 isn't particularly good for black. after a3 we're forced to trade bishop for knight, which isn't bad in a closed position, but the pawns are placed such that white can open up the board anytime he chooses. This will give his bishops good lines and let them become very powerfull. Kingpatzer 12:56, 5 July 2006 (PDT) 12:55, 5 July 2006 (PDT)

0-0

• Castling king-side puts us in a better defensive position, and gets our rook out of the corner and into somewhere more useful. Ze's bishop doesn't really change the situation in the center (other than making it a bit more volatile), but it does allow him to castle... it seems like now is a good time for us to do so as well.

• His Bd3 advance suggests he's going to castle kingside next move. He doesn't have a reasonable attack/exchange yet, so this would be a good time to castle ourselves, so that we can maintain tempo and initiative. Also, it completely locks up the kingside for us (until Ze exchanges out). Better for us to castle first, before Ze does, then use our move next turn to bring more forces to bear and/or strike into his position. ßrigade^rant 11:59, 5 July 2006 (PDT)

• This is my vote, but I'd like to see some actual analysis at this point. if 7. ... 0-0 what are white's options? I see several reasonable moves: Kingpatzer 12:56, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
  • 8. a3 -- this is probably white's strongest response, when we can choose to retreat the bishop, take the knight, or take the c-pawn. We don't want to play NxB but in any of these lines cxd5 is going to happen sooner or later, and the resulting pawn structure for black will mean we have to advance c6 at some point. Probably best would be 8. a3 Bxc3+ 9. bxc3 c6 10. 0-0 b6 11. Ne5 Ba6 when white may have a bit more space, but black is exerting strong pressure on white's pawn structure. This game was played up to move 9 in 1950 by a few Castillo-Poulsen. White won that game, but I think that black's play in that game can be improved upon. Kingpatzer 12:56, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
  • 8. Bd2 -- this seems reasonable to me, but isn't something that appears in my database. 8. ... Nxd2 9. Qxd2 c6 10. 0-0 Nd7 looks perfectly playable to me. Kingpatzer 12:56, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
  • 8. cxd5 -- also is not in my database. But isn't something we need to fear. both Bxc3+ and exd5 are playable here. 8. ... Bxc3+ 9. bxc3 exd5 10. c4 Be6 11. 0-0 Nc6 and we're fine Kingpatzer 12:56, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
  • 8. 0-0 -- This position has happened several times in the past. The line 8. ... c6 9. Ne5 has been played to a draw more than once. Nothing to fear here either. Kingpatzer 12:56, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
  • 8. Qb3 -- This move looks reasonable to me, but when I start going down lines, I see nothing particularly scary about it. 8. ... c5 9. 0-0 Nc6 10. cxd5 Na5 11. Qc2 exd5 is perfectly acceptable. If white plays dxc our pieces will be well positioned to turn the coming isolani into a battering ram on white's position. Kingpatzer 12:56, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Just to play devil's advocate, I don't know that we need to castle right now, or castle king side at all. Since it looks likely Ze will castle, I'd like to see us start attacking that side of the board (see g5 below). In that case, having the rook on the h file isn't a bad thing, and may do us more good than moving it to the center.bobbie_mac^{rap at me}
    • "attacking?" We've got 5 undeveloped pieces and aren't castled. We are in no position at all to talk about attack at this stage of the game. We're not even half-way through the opening. Save attacking ideas for when we have pieces to attack with :) Kingpatzer 13:29, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
  • I'll admit, I'm rusty. But we seem to be doing OK with the half of the board we have out. Castling now doesn't get any Queenside pieces out any faster, but getting that knight out of the way will. (my humble opinion)  : )bobbie_mac^{rap at me}

b6

• This doesn't work because of 8. Q4, costing us the Bishop
  • Read the last move discussion Nc6 covers the bishop, cancels check, freely develops the Knight, and if he was going to use (the inneffective) Qa4+ he would have done it instead of Qc2. ßrigade^rant 11:54, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
    • Ok, I Read the last move discussion. 8. Q4+ Nc6 9.Qxc6 Bd7 10.Qb7 ? Shadowcrash 12:09, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
      • He'd never do it (he's playing way too smart) .. but 10. Qb7, a5 11. ?? Nd6 would take his queen clean (barring any other threat/sacrifice on his part to save her). ßrigade^rant
        • What about 8. Qa4+ Nc6 9. Ne5 ? He has a pinned knight in the crosshairs and attacks d7. Our bishop at B4 is in a world of hurt. 9... Bd7 or Bb7 results in 10. Nxc6 Bxc6 11. Qxb4 OR even Qxc6+ forking the rook forcing us to either move the King or exchange queens (and still forcing us to move the King). This is a bad move and will result in nothing but material advantage for ze.
• I like this move, as Bb7 in the next move covers the e4 square, which appears to be where Ze is focusing his attack.
  • Uh .. what attack? Ze's on the defensive. e4 is a possible outpost for his knight, but he won't use it yet (defending g5 and h4 from our Queen) .. and from there he has no move .. however .. looking at b6 .. it exposes us to a liability. If Ze pushes his pawn to c6 next move, our Bishop is completely cut off and lost (8. c4; 9. a3) forcing us to trade it off or lose it entirely. ßrigade^rant
    • If he completes the castle, his bishop, knight, and queen are all aimed at e4. Kxe4, dxe4, Bxe4, fxe4, Qxe4 and our pawn structure is gone, Ze controls the middle of the board, and still has a strong defensive base to strike out from. Please correct me if I'm wrong (but be gentle :) )

c6

• It cripples our Queenside pieces (Knight has only a6 or d7, Bishop only d7, and both block our queen from protecting our d5 pawn) .. waiting to hear an opinion from whomever suggested the move. ßrigade^rant
  • agreed. This is rather restrictive play

g5

• I like this because it let's us attack his knight one move later unless he addresses it. If he decides to do Nxg5 we can counter with Nxg5 or Qxg5 and our pawn at f5 is still protected and prevents an attack on h7.bobbie_mac^{rap at me}
  • It also forces us to castle queenside .. and our reply is Qxg5 .. but he won't take the pawn. It's aggressive, strikes into his position (he has to castle to that side) .. I like it except we're putting castling off for at least 3 moves (to clear out the Queen, Knight, and Bishop on our Queenside) .. and that's the side his pawns are pointing at .. great idea .. but I think it's a tad reckless. ßrigade^rant
    • I don't see castling as a goal yet. We're in a position to press and I think we should keep careful pressure on. If we can get that knight or force it to retreat It opens that side of the board for attacks by our queen and light bishop. We may never need to castle. Our king also has a ton of room to run if need be.bobbie_mac^{rap at me}
      • We are in no position to press anything. Most lower ranked chess players lose games because they are overly agressive, and this is a perfect example of that. Give white after g5 to Gary Kasparov and black to a randomly selected FM and white is still going to struggle. You can't weaken your own position on the hope that your opposition will be stupid. You have to assume they'll make the best move on the board, not the worst. Kingpatzer 13:35, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
      • I think this opens up the board a little too much as makes our king side pretty weak. It's good to get our pieces on his side of the board, but this move isn't a very legitimate attack. It's pretty easy to counter, might force his knight into a better position than it currently is, and when all is said and done doesn't leave us with a very solid pawn structure. I'm just playing devil's advocate here though, so please disprove me. -arc

• this strikes me as a blunder. As Brigade notes, we're going to have to castle queen side, but after 8. Ne5 how do we get there? If 8. ... Bb7 9. Qb3 and black is instantly worse. If 8. ... Nd7 9. NxN BxN 10. Qb3 and again, black is worse. Maybe best is 8. ... c6 but then 9. cxd5 exd5 10. f3 and I don't see where black is going to come out on top. Kingpatzer 13:26, 5 July 2006 (PDT)
• My goal with this is to pressure the knight at f3, which is protecting the squares at g5 and h4. What are the responses?

- Nxg5 Qxg5- a bad response from ze...a pawn knight exchange with our queen in position to attack his king side.

- Ne5 - possibly the strongest response, but it doesn't attack any of our pieces immediately

- O-O - this lets us attack the knight at f3 with g4. Even if the knight escapes, we've developed our pawn structure on that side of the board.

- g4 - this would block us from attacking the knight at f3, but you folks clamoring for us to castle should love this response because it keeps ze from castling for at least one move and breaks up the fortress he would have if he does castle king side.

I'm sure there are responses I haven't anticipated, but that's why we're talking. See what you would do if you were Ze and tell me if you don't like this move.bobbie_mac^{rap at me}

• • Ne5 (K = king usually) is not just his strongest response, it's a devistating positional advantage. The question to ask isn't what does he do next? But what do we do next? What's our plan. You had the short term goal to pressure this knight to move from an innocuous spot where it wasn't bothering us at all to a strong outpost in our territory. To do that you made a huge positional concession in weakening the king pawn structure. Now what? c6? 0-0? Be7? any of those and cxd5 begins the to obliterate black's game. Maybe you envision 8. ... Nd7 9. NxN BxN 10. 0-0 but where's the follow up? Black is still positionally busted and white has a field of targets! A move needs to be more than a temporary threat. Kingpatzer 14:05, 5 July 2006 (PDT)