From zefrank

detailed history | current 3d view

	Ze	Us	consensus
1	d4	d5	56%
2	c4	e6	66%
3	Nc3	Bb4	48%
4	Nf3	Nf6	82%
5	e3	Ne4	56%
6	Qc2	f5	62%
7	Bd3	O-O	83%
8	O-O	b6	61%
9	a3	Bxc3	57%
10	bxc3	Ba6	65%
11	Ne5	Nd7	37%
12	Nc6	Qf6	89%
13	f3	Nd6	100%
14	e4	dxc4	100%
15	Be2	e5	100%
16	d5	Nb8	55%
17	Nb4	Bb7	93%
18	a4	a5	100%
19	Na2	Nd7	50%
20	Ba3	Rac8	50%
21	Rab1	Qg5	60%
22	Kh1	fxe4	61%
23	fxe4	Qg6	89%
24	Rxf8+	Rxf8	100%
25	Bxd6	Rf2	100%
26	Rg1	cxd6	100%
27	Qd1	Nf6	73%
28	Bf3	Nxe4	93%
29	Nc1	Rd2	53%
30	Bxe4	Rxd1	100%
31	Bxg6	Rxg1+	100%
32	Kxg1	hxg6	100%
33	Resign	---

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• Rough draft of the Fabuloso Chess Edit Guide is now up and located here

Strategy Discussion

Contents 1 Strategy Discussion 2 Suggested Move Summary 2.1 c6 2.1.1 Voting 2.2 b6 2.2.1 Voting

Our Pawn at d5 is still being threatened by the pawn at c4, but it is protected by pawn at e6. Ze has castled, so the c3 knight threatens d5 (protected by e6 and our queen) and our knight on e4 (protected by d5 and f5). We have also advanced our Knight to f3 in preparation to possibly assault Ze's position. Please take the time to familiarize yourself with some common middlegametactics as well.

Also, please don't be too hesitant to suggest your own move in this section. Just use * to begin a line and add your idea, even if you aren't familiar with notation, or don't feel comfortable updating the boards/suggestions yourself, there are plenty of us that will be more than willing to set them up for you (and keep everything organized) ßrigade^rant

One thing to consider when suggesting a move is that in the middlegame, a move needs to have a plan behind it. Try to give justification for a move in a speculative set of moves. What is the best response? What happens after that? What are the strategic goals (how will the pieces be deployed at the end of the sequence of moves you envision?) And what tactics will make it possible (what are the exact moves that will get there?) Successfull middlegame play requires analysis of each move. You don't have to do this to suggest a move. But the more insight you provide into your reasoning for considering an idea, the more focused the analysis that happens for that move can be. Kingpatzer

Suggested Move Summary

Suggested Move Suggested Move: 8. O-O c6	Suggested Move Suggested Move: 8. O-O Bxc3	Suggested Move Suggested Move: 8. 0-0 Nc6
Suggested Move Suggested Move: 8. 0-0 Nxc3	Speculative Position Last Move: 8. 0-0 Ng5	Suggested Move Suggested Move: 8. O-O b6
Suggested Move Suggested Move: 8. O-O Qe8	Suggested Move Suggested Move: 8. O-O Kh8

c6

• solidifies center and takes the sting out of a future Ne5 move by white Kingpatzer 11:43, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Also, btw, a move that occurs several times in my database of GM games with good results Kingpatzer 14:40, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
• bottles up our knight and bishop in order to provide a bit of pawn support.
  • actually this frees up the bishop to attack white's C pawn via Ba6 -- a common enough theme in games with this type of structure
• I don't see a time loss here. I actually see problems with our structure that I'm trying to address. Possible response lines:

- 9. Ne2 Bd6 10. b3 Qf6 11. a4 b6 and we've covered our glaring weaknesses, solidified our pawn structure, and now we can start doing things like Ba6 (attacking c5) and Nd7-g6

- 9. Bd2 Bd6 10. Ne2 b6 looks reasonable, but also 9. ... Nxd2 10. Qxd2 Nd7 11. Qc2 Nf6 is a good posiiblity

- 9. a3 Bd6 10. b4 b6 and we're solid and ready to play either Ba6 or Nd7 as the next choice by white dictates

- in all these lines black is fine. We have a solid, active position with lots of choices on how to respond to white. We're maintaining our space and addressing structural weaknesses. We aren't creating weaknesses on the premise of attack. Remember, you can only attack in chess when your opponent has made a mistake. So far, ze's position is free from weaknesses we can target, so we want to remain solid but fluid. This does that. It allows us to attack c4 with the bishop, it allows us to play the knight into b4 if that oporuntity presents itself, it supports using the e & f pawns as weapons if the chance arises. Kingpatzer 12:56, 6 July 2006 (PDT)

• Only problem I have with your potential lines is you're guessing Ze's response on move 10 .. and those are all weak responses. The best move for him would be 9. c5 and we lose a move trading our bishop, while he has a stranglehold on the center. If we move our bishop, we CANNOT move to Bd6 while his pawn is a threat. ßrigade^rant
  • 9. Bd2 Bd6 10. c5 is good for black We should be very happy if white decides to weaken his pawn chain by over-advancing and locking up the position. That reduces possibilities for Ze and worsens his position while doing nothing bad to us. In a closed board tempo isn't everything -- and is certainly worth far less than having a good pawn lever in the center. Continueing: 10. ... Bc7 11. Ne2 (b4 is possible but good for us) Nd7 12. Nf4 Qe7 13. Bb4 e5 14. dxe5 Nxe5 15. Nx35 Bxe5 16.f3 Ng5 and black has a significant advantage given that white can't possibly support that c5 pawn all game. Kingpatzer 13:16, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
    • How is c5 good for black? We'll have NO pieces on the left side of the board, and he's completely locked us out from attacking his Queenside! He can advance pieces and/or pawns to shore up his defenses and take us apart slowly! Also remember that we HAVE to trade off our bishop for his knight, or we'll lose it to a3 and b4. You are assuming that Ze will move Bd2 .. this board is what his best response would be .. take a look.ßrigade^rant
      • because after 10. c5 white's pawns are immobile he has no way to leverage open the center using his pawns. Because we ARE under-developed this is to our benefit and to white's detriment. It is at best drawish chess and it fails to take advantage of his best features. And the head of the pawn chain is a target we can attack with a future b6 at a time of our choosing. After 10. c5 Bc7 black is solidly positioned and white is without a paln. His pieces are positioned for center or queen-side play but there are no targets for him to play against. He has to waste far more than a single tempo either enticing us to open up the queen side to give him targets or manuvouring to the king side. In either case, it's to our advantage. Go play over a few master level d4 games and you'll notice that white almost never advances c5. There's a reason. It's a bad move for white. Kingpatzer 13:47, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
      • if white plays an immediate 9. c5 (instead of 9. Bd2 Bd6 10. c5) it's GREAT for black. Now, an immedate 9. ... b6 puts white in a bind. he doesn't want to have to deal with isolated pawns so he more or less has to capture with 10. cxb when 10. ... axb gives our rook access to the Queenside, making a future Ba6 even stronger. Moreover, now we can play c5 when the end result is that black has gained more space than white, and it will result in black getting the upper hand. Kingpatzer 13:57, 6 July 2006 (PDT)

• • • • • specific line: 9. c5 b6 10. cxb6 (else bxc6) axb6 11. Ne5 Bd6 12. f4 c5

• I like what this does for pawn structure. What if the next move is 9. Ne5? How does this "take the sting" out of that?
  • if 9. Ne5 Nd7 10. f4 Nxe5 11. fxe5 b6 12. Bxe4 dxe4 and black is in a very solid position.
• I think 9. Bd2 is a fairly likely response by White. Black would then be wise to pull back to Bd6 or Be7. --Jeff

• I might not be around come voting time, so this is my vote please. Kingpatzer 16:07, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
• I also can't be here after 7...but I like this one due to the quick way it gets back to a strong pawn structure. Put me down for this one when the votes open, please.bobbie_mac^{rap at me}
• Ok .. here's a line for you: 8. .. c6 9. a3 Bxc3 10. bxc3 Nd7 how does that look for Black? Take it a few steps further .. 11. Nd2 Nxd2 12. Bxd2 dxc4 .. it's an ugly, uphill game that White owns. c6 is a losing move unless Ze makes a blunder. ßrigade^rant
  • Bxc3 is the wrong response to a3. Bd6 is much better. We still want to keep that bishop. And yeah, it is something of an uphill battle for Black. It has been ever since Ne4. f5 didn't help matters. --Jeff

Voting

1. VOTE by Jeff: by far the safest move for black!
2. VOTE by AnonHC 16:41, 6 July 2006 (PDT) : Kingpatzer, if I ever play chess against you Im probably going to get my clock very strongly cleaned. I nominate you for honorable mention in the league of awesomeness for your strong chess analysis! Are us fabulosos allowed to do that? -AnonHC
3. VOTE by Kingpatzer 16:41, 6 July 2006 (PDT) : per the comment of this section, text added by AnonHC
4. VOTE by 64.231.133.110 : this is the most balanced move. P.S. how do I create a user name? I can play some chess but I'm a weak wikier...
5. VOTE by bobbie_mac^{rap at me}
6. VOTE by Wophugus
7. VOTE by Reagank 18:22, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
8. VOTE by Thebigjc 19:08, 6 July 2006 (PDT)

b6

• This one has been discussed ad naseum, but now Qa4 no longer puts us in check. This gives our light bishop a little more freedom, doesn't block our dark bishop's movement, still allows us to do Nc6 in a later move if we want and will strengthen c5 if we eventually make that move.
  • Stole the words out of my digits, except you made them sound more eloquent. Funky citrus 13:23, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
    • I was leaning more towards developing our Knight, but you're right .. this is a very nice move .. and effective use of our 'free move' (since Ze castled) .. I'm inclined to go with this one at this point unless I see some really convincing arguements to the contrary. ßrigade^rant
• 9. cxd5 Bxc3 10. bxc3 exd5 11. c4 Be6 12 cxd5 Bxd5 13. dxc5 bxc5 14. Bb2 and now what? black isn't bad, but he's passive and un-coordinated and white's set to play all over the board. This isn't a bad move per se, but it lets' white sit in teh driver's seat for the next 10 moves at least. Kingpatzer 14:06, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
  • You're entire theory resides on cxd5 .. you need to evaluate other moves .. every line you've analyzed has assumed that Ze will move cxd5 .. when there are other more likely alternatives. ßrigade^rant
    • I'm looking at alternatives. I'm merely coming back to the best moves for white. Give me a superior line for white if you don't like the one's I'm posting. But frankly, I'm giving lines not making assertions. To show a move is bad all I have to do is show one forcing line that ends with black worse off than when he started. 9. cxd5 is forcing, black has to respond, and it ends giving black a real struggle for the draw. Kingpatzer 14:51, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
      • Alright .. here's an alternative line for you. 9. c5 bxc5 10. dxcd Bxc5 and we free up our bishop. Your analysis is still lacking .. you're opting for 'worst-cast' scenarios for every other move that you don't support, and they're not even entirely realistic. This is TACTICS .. you can't guesstimate more than 3 moves ahead (and sometimes even that) without too many branches. This is a damn good alternative, even if he captures on d5. ßrigade^rant
• I might not be around to update the voting sections @7PM EST .. so I'm going to go ahead and post a vote for this move. When I get back I'll reevaluate, but the alternatives all look like losing propositions. I think this is the best (offensively, defensively, and developmentally) move that we have, and it still keeps us fluid without backing off or losing tempo. ßrigade^rant
• Can someone have a look at this line from white: 9 Bxe4 dxe4 10 Nxe4 fxe4 11 Qxe4 and his queen is pointed at our rook, the central pawn structure is decimated, and our knight at the advanced post is gone.
  • Only problem with that line: He's trading a bishop and a Knight for a Knight and a pawn. We stand to gain off that exchange.
• This is a terrible move. It totally gives away the center and probably loses a pawn for black in the long run. I agree with Kingpatzer's analysis up to move 10 but I think he missed 11. Ba3! for White. Jeff
  • Excellent improvement for white! Kingpatzer 16:10, 6 July 2006 (PDT)

11. Ba3 c5 equalizes with tempo. Re8 is the problem move in that line.

• 'm not 100% sure but I think that loses a pawn directly --Jeff.

Voting

1. VOTE by ßrigade^rant 17:26, 6 July 2006 (PDT): c6 is a mistake, and the analysis for it is flawed. We've done good thus far, let's not blunder into a corner yet!
2. VOTE by Funky citrus 17:50, 6 July 2006 (PDT): The c6 bandwagon has left the corale. Please, If you're on it get the heck off before we get ourselves smitten!
3. VOTE by Graymon 70.144.160.253 18:01, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
4. VOTE by Eddie 18:03, 6 July 2006 (PDT)
5. VOTE by mayorcj^SR 18:44, 6 July 2006 (PDT) : I really hope this gains support, i'm putting the other moves in the magic dumpster because they seem to have not recieved any viable support.
6. VOTE by --Lordsah 19:05, 6 July 2006 (PDT)