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catbelly 09-11-2003 09:18 PM

Canadians
 
http://www.post-gazette.com/columnis...0sam0730p1.asp

You live next door to a clean-cut, quiet guy. He never plays loud music or throws raucous parties. He doesn't gossip over the fence, just smiles politely and offers you some tomatoes. His lawn is cared-for, his house is neat as a pin and you get the feeling he doesn't always lock his front door. He wears Dockers. You hardly know he's there.

And then one day you discover that he has pot in his basement, spends his weekends at peace marches and that guy you've seen mowing the yard is his spouse.

Allow me to introduce Canada.

**********************

This article from a Philly newspaper cracked me up. It makes big generalizations about the US, which always makes me feel a bit nuts - but all in all I thought it was a tongue in cheek interesting comparison of Canada and the US. What do you think?

priceyfatprude 09-12-2003 12:12 AM

Blame Canada! Blame Canada! For all their hockey hullabaloo. And that bitch Anne Murray too.

malina 09-12-2003 12:46 AM

some canadians are really nice...... ;) *wink wink*

priceyfatprude 09-12-2003 12:54 AM

I was only teasing. I love all things Canadian. Molson Ice, Maple, Moel, Malina, Marguerite.

Oh & buttertarts.

priceyfatprude 09-12-2003 12:56 AM

Mmmmmm, buttertarts.


Mmmmmmm, moelie goalie stick, hahahahaHAHAHAHA

priceyfatprude 09-12-2003 12:58 AM

Oh, he's in bed. He won't even see this until tomorrow. And then he will laugh. :p

Miss Malevolent 09-12-2003 01:02 AM

That quote is pretty funny.

I've always viewed Canada as the suburbs and the US as the inner city.

I like inner city living though...so to me it ain't a negative.

catbelly 09-12-2003 02:02 AM

Oops! Those "P" cities, you know... confusing for someone from the 'burbs :)

*sigh, hockey* the exhibition games are starting... summer is over.

LOL about Anne Murray being a bitch!!! I am sure my ears will burn when I hear comments about...

CELINE DION

*ducking and running away*

priceyfatprude 09-12-2003 03:14 PM

I shall let KittenTumTum in on the joke:


South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut Soundtrack Lyrics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Artist: Lyrics
Song: Blame Canada Lyrics

Sheila(Kyle's mom):Times have changed, our kids are getting worse They won't obey their parents they just wan't to fart and curse

Mrs. Marsh: Should we blame the government? Ms. Cartman: Or blame society?

Boys fathers: Or should we blame the images on TV?

Sheila(Kyle's mom):

No,blame Canada, blame Canada
With all their beedy little eyes have packed thier heads so full of lies, blame Canada, blame Canada,
we need to form a full assault its canadas fault

Mrs. Marsh:Don't blame me for my son Stan he saw the darn cartoon and now hes of to join the klan

Ms. Cartman: And my boy Eric once had my picture on his shelf but now when I see him he tells me to **** myself

Shelia: Well? Blame Canada, blame Canada, it seems that everythings gone wrong since Canada came along, blame
Canada, blame Canada

Copy shop attendent:They're not even a real country
anyway

Mrs. McCormick:
My son could have been a doctor or a lawyer rich and true instead he burned up like a piggy on a barbeque

Crowd: Should we blame the matches? Should we blame the fire?
Or the doctors who allowed
him to expire

Sheila: Heck no, blame Canada, blame Canada, with all their hockey hullabaloo

Ms. Cartman: And that bitch Ann Murray too

Everyone: Blame Canada, shame on Canada, for the smut we must stuff the trash we must stash the laughter and **** must all be undone we must blame them the cause of fuss before
somebody thinks of blaming us

catbelly 09-14-2003 04:35 PM

I can't believe I didn't get that reference... I love South Park! Terence & Philip totally crack me up.

dickieC 09-14-2003 04:46 PM

Ohhhhh Ca-na-da we stand on guaaaaard forrrr theeee!!!!!

catbelly 09-14-2003 06:02 PM

Dickie you know as much of the anthem as lots of us Canajuns :)

catbelly 09-14-2003 06:51 PM

Whoooo I did learn it in elementary school at one point, but I think I must have destroyed that part of my brain in between then and now. I'm going to Montreal soon, maybe I should brush up on that!

catbelly 09-14-2003 07:58 PM

Aw, Peg, I was just joking... I really do know the words. And, last year, I actually shed a tear at the Canucks game when people were singing the anthem so freaking loud (and with the correct words, lol) that the designated singer (I think it was Ben Heffner) stopped singing and held the mic up to the crowd. It was really something to see / hear - Canadians aren't really known for being rabidly patriotic or at least publicly demonstrative so to have that many people fvcking BELTING it out was incredible.

malina 09-14-2003 08:22 PM

*cough*

i don't understand why people are proud of their nationality... there is no merit! where you are born is a coincidence, nothing else. no?

malina 09-14-2003 08:28 PM

i don't think nationality matters in any country

catbelly 09-15-2003 10:20 PM

I must laugh at myself... I was reading the posts re: nationality above, and I had a crazy moment where I thought to myself, "holy smack, I don't understand what people are saying.... what is going on.... is it possible that I don't know what 'nationality' means even though I use the word all the time??"

Ha.

So I finally figured out (I think?) that you guys are using nationality = race or ethnicity... is that right?

I use nationality = nation you are from, nation being the country.

That's really interesting.

catbelly 09-15-2003 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nycwriters
Actually the political phenomena in Canada has been that you're your nationality first, Canadian second. It's been studied by sociologists for years.

Whereas across the border, you are most definately American first, your nationality second ...

Sorry chica, didn't read immigration into your post.

So yes if you put it in that context, you certainly make sense. :)

So malina, you were also talking about immigrants? Being proud of their home nation?

malina 09-16-2003 12:00 AM

i don't understand the concept of being proud of any nation, whether birth nationality or as an immigrant.

it's like being proud to be blond or blue eyed or tall or short. there is no merit in living in one country or another ( that's the way i feel ). i can only be proud of something that took an effort on my part. pride is something that needs to be earned.

catbelly 09-16-2003 12:19 AM

EEEeeeee I have all sorts of undeserved pride in that case!!

Maybe it's a "shade" of pride... it's not by any greatness of my own that my mom and dad are great, but I am proud anyway... my brother is super, also very proud of him... my Jamaican heritage is something I feel happy and good about, though I don't take credit for the cool things about Jamaica of course .... maybe you wouldn't call that pride?

What do you call those feelings, if you have them? If not pride, then something else?

Just as a fer instance, if you believe really strongly that voting makes a difference and you vote for someone that ends up elected, and they do a bunch of great things that you also believe in... didn't you help that happen? And, say you live in Canada where those good things happened, aren't you helping to build a country that you are proud of? And aren't you justified in that case in being proud, because the state of your country is partly due to your efforts?

*sigh* I realize that probably sounds super corny. But, on a micro scale - taking the whole voting thing out of it - I think that living a life that you're proud of and living in a place that matches your ideals is sort of the same thing ... it's like your personal values reinforce the country's national values, and I think that's good enough reason to be proud of where you choose to live (whether you were born there or not).

catbelly 09-16-2003 01:09 AM

You may be interested in some thoughts from this book about my life:http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

azur 09-16-2003 08:09 AM

Quote:

malina wrote:
i don't understand the concept of being proud of any nation, whether birth nationality or as an immigrant.
It's like defending your lifestyle and your culture. If we were not proud of them there would exist one, global village. Kind of gigantic Mac Donalds.
Diversity is precious.

chuckie egg 09-16-2003 08:21 AM

Exactly, there nothing wrong with being proud.

malina 09-16-2003 09:23 AM

i didn't say there was anything wrong with being proud

Miss Malevolent 09-16-2003 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by malina
i don't understand the concept of being proud of any nation, whether birth nationality or as an immigrant.

it's like being proud to be blond or blue eyed or tall or short. there is no merit in living in one country or another ( that's the way i feel ). i can only be proud of something that took an effort on my part. pride is something that needs to be earned.

It's like being proud of the accomplishments of the people that came before you being proud of your heritage.

Using your, "blond or blue eyed" analogy. It's like being proud to be African-American cause of MLK Jr. or Harriet Tubman...the proud black people that came before you.

At least that's how I define being proud to be American.

malina 09-16-2003 11:40 AM

i have reservations about taking credit ( feeling pride ) for someone else's work.

maybe it's a matter of definition. i can understand feeling pride for someone. what catbelly said before about being proud of your kids, your siblings, etc. makes sense.

but can i only be proud of the *white* people that came before me because *i* am white?

dickieC 09-16-2003 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie egg
Exactly, there nothing wrong with being proud.
Chuckie: It's a deadly Sin!!!!!!

catbelly 09-16-2003 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by malina
i have reservations about taking credit ( feeling pride ) for someone else's work.

maybe it's a matter of definition. i can understand feeling pride for someone. what catbelly said before about being proud of your kids, your siblings, etc. makes sense.

but can i only be proud of the *white* people that came before me because *i* am white?

Malina, so you will never be the dinkish co-worker who takes credit for other people's stuff?? How will you ever get ahead??? I am sooo kidding of course. I totally agree. Taking credit and being proud are separated in my head, though, so I can do one and not the other.

I think being proud of colour is a bit odd, unless colour represents something to you - like culture, or your heritage, family, etc. Colour can also bind you to a heritage, if that makes sense. Make you feel an affinity, maybe that's a better way to put it.

ETA, I didn't really address what you said, sorry ... I think that if you *only* identify with white people, then sure, maybe you would *only* be proud of them. I think that would be sad, though, and I doubt you feel that way. Why did you phrase it that way, Malina? Sorry if I'm being dense but I don't get it.

LOL about the deadly sin, dickie ;) I just ate a huge sandwich and two containers of coleslaw... looks like I've got two sins to deal with at the moment! What if I'm slothful because of my gluttony.... three!! Doh. And it's only lunchtime.

malina 09-16-2003 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by catbelly
ETA, I didn't really address what you said, sorry ... I think that if you *only* identify with white people, then sure, maybe you would *only* be proud of them. I think that would be sad, though, and I doubt you feel that way. Why did you phrase it that way, Malina? Sorry if I'm being dense but I don't get it.

i was replying to what miss m. had said because i don't get it either ;) ... you're very far from being dense, dear cat!

Quote:

Originally posted by Miss Malevolent

Using your, "blond or blue eyed" analogy. It's like being proud to be African-American cause of MLK Jr. or Harriet Tubman...the proud black people that came before you.

At least that's how I define being proud to be American.


catbelly 09-16-2003 04:46 PM

re: density - never say never :)
 
I see Malina - but I also see what miz mal said, because MLK and Harriet Tubman were enormous contributors to culture - American culture, but also black culture. It's not just that they were black - it's that they were outstanding human beings who were black and advocated human rights for all people, but, due to their own characteristics, made the most impact in black culture because they were not only leaders they were role models. It may be hard to fathom now (or, I hope it is!), but in the past the race lines were so much more clearly delineated that having a role model of a different race was ... well, sometimes unfathomable.

I don't know what term everyone is comfy with, so I really am sorry if "black culture" is not the right one.... words are important, I respect that.

Anyway - maybe it seems weird to race-identify in terms of being proud, but I think in this case it's different because it is IMO all tied up with culture - "black" is not just a colour.

ETA, I think ideas of cultural/racial pride are also tied up in self-worth and social acceptance. In the case of race, non-white people in America have not normally been accepted right away (not just by white Americans, by whoever is already there). So, to be proud of one's culture/ethnicity is a very positive thing, IMO - many years / generations have been spent not feeling accepted and, outside of the family home, not proud.

malina 09-16-2003 07:16 PM

ok i misunderstood! it just stuck in my head and i was wondering how she meant it. i can relate to the way you put it and agree.

chuckie egg 09-17-2003 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dickieC
Chuckie: It's a deadly Sin!!!!!!
All sins are deadly actually. Pride, a sin? Depends what it is your proud of I suppose.

Miss Malevolent 09-17-2003 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by malina
i have reservations about taking credit ( feeling pride ) for someone else's work.

maybe it's a matter of definition. i can understand feeling pride for someone. what catbelly said before about being proud of your kids, your siblings, etc. makes sense.

but can i only be proud of the *white* people that came before me because *i* am white?

Sure why not?

I know what you're getting at...

'White Pride' Usually associated with Nazism and all that garbage.

Difference between those and TRUE pride...is pride doesn't come at the exclusion of others.

Nothing wrong with being proud of a heritage you've inherited.

Parents are proud of their kids for their accomplishments.

Kids are proud of their parents for theirs.

Sisters and brothers proud of each other...

So it isn't that much of a stretch to be proud of the heritage and respect the people that came before you and paved a better way for you.

malina 09-17-2003 11:41 AM

see, i disagree. that has a lot to do with my heritage.

being born and raised in germany, there is absolutely NOTHING to be proud of ( in terms of heritage ). this is probably the very reason why patriotism is such a touchy topic with me. i was just reading allegro's post in the other thread ( re hitler ) and i agree 100%. it doesn't start with a madman shouting insane speeches and killing millions! it starts in very subtle ways. this pride in heritage, race and nationality is exactly what hitler used to bait people when he had the opportunity and there was nothing else to believe in.

i spent many many years of my life being utterly ashamed to be german. i have lived outside of germany for the past 20 years and in the beginning it was very hard for me to 'admit' where i'm coming from when people asked. i have a different viewpoint now. i can appreciate many things about my country, there are things that i like and things that i miss. i will never be a canadian - just because i'm not. it's not a judgment but a fact. i'm neither proud nor ashamed to be german, i just am. that's a fact too. it has no importance in my life.

this is not to say that anyone who displays a certain pride in their heritage is a nazi - please don't get me wrong! as always, there are many shades of grey between white and black ( no pun intended! ).

dinzdale 09-17-2003 11:50 AM

Pride and nationalism are one side of a huge swath of emotions, not least of which is merely "belonging" to a certain group. If I meet other Brits we instantly have discussion and view points from our collective youth and the common strains we all share. It is not my everyday life, but it is there. You must experience similar feelings when meeting other people of common backgrounds. You dont have to be proud, but everyone wants to share with others. Being from the same country of birth and upbringing is a very easy thread to hold onto.

Miss Malevolent 09-17-2003 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by malina
being born and raised in germany, there is absolutely NOTHING to be proud of ( in terms of heritage ). this is probably the very reason why patriotism is such a touchy topic with me. i was just reading allegro's post in the other thread ( re hitler ) and i agree 100%. it doesn't start with a madman shouting insane speeches and killing millions! it starts in very subtle ways. this pride in heritage, race and nationality is exactly what hitler used to bait people when he had the opportunity and there was nothing else to believe in.
First, Germany produced greater things than Hitler.

German engineering (unfortunately exploited by Hitler) for one. The rich cultural history, lederhosen (heh)...

I lived in Germany...there is more to that country's history than Hitler.

Much like there is more to the United States history than slavery or the subjugation of the native american.

Doesn't mean because of the bad you over look the good.

I feel that's the flip side of the coin for people who ONLY want to look at the good and not focus on the bad.

I enjoy the history of this country. I'm proud to be American, have African heritage, I'm a proud Detroiter, I love the city of my childhood.

Quote:

i spent many many years of my life being utterly ashamed to be german. i will never be a canadian - just because i'm not. it's not a judgment but a fact. i'm neither proud nor ashamed to be german, i just am. that's a fact too. it has no importance in my life.[/b]
I really disagree with people being ashamed of who they are.

I'm glad you worked through that. Cause I think it's a waste of time for people to beat themselves up over what they have no control over.

As to your last point of saying, "*shrug* I couldn't care less either way", well then all of this just comes down to a difference of opinion.

It's something that in your life carries little weight.

I just gave you a different prespective on why someone would think it was important.

malina 09-17-2003 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Miss Malevolent
First, Germany produced greater things than Hitler.
German engineering (unfortunately exploited by Hitler) for one. The rich cultural history, lederhosen (heh)...
i have NOTHING to do with that! why be proud of it?

Quote:

I lived in Germany...there is more to that country's history than Hitler.
i lived in germany too. i know that.

Quote:

As to your last point of saying, "*shrug* I couldn't care less either way", well then all of this just comes down to a difference of opinion. It's something that in your life carries little weight. I just gave you a different prespective on why someone would think it was important.
i respect your view and i don't force my views on other people ( i hope you didn't get that impression ).

amanda 09-17-2003 03:07 PM

dinz made a very good point.

when I was living outside of America, many people would automatically assign me characteristics according to my nationality once they learned it. Fourth of July, depending on the crowd, was either treated like a second birthday for me or a day to bring up grievances toward my country of birth.

I never fostered nor discounted these reactions from others, because to me, it was more interesting to see their reaction than it was for me to share my beliefs about America.

Nationality is an easy, common conversation piece between travelers, just as where are you going and where have you been. Some use it as a part of their identity. Others choose to use other facets to distinguish themselves or be tied to other groups. But almost always, people will ask. It's a quick, dirty way to place someone.

And yes, there have been times when I've told people on the road that I'm Canadian- mostly because I don't want to deal with the laughter, jokes or yet another tirade.

They just ask "Where's your maple leaf?"
"Tattooed on my bum, just like everyone else."

catbelly 09-17-2003 04:30 PM

Malina, thanks for telling us that about your upbringing - a lot of the things you said make more sense now that I can see where you're coming from. My question for you now is, if you could be so ashamed.... why can't you be proud? They are flip sides of the same issue. Have you divorced yourself so far from Germany and all you associate with it that you are denying both the shame and the pride? Just a thought.

LOL about the maple leaf on the bum, amanda!

malina 09-17-2003 06:59 PM

exactly! they're flip sides of the same issue.

i haven't divorced myself from anything, i just don't put importance on where i'm born, it's not something that's important to me and it doesn't make sense for me to be proud of my birth country ( or the country i live in now ). that doesn't mean i'm denying anything. it doesn't have to be one or the other.


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