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-   -   Is The Pledge of Allegiance Un-American? (http://www.zefrank.com/bulletin_new/showthread.php?t=11713)

kjh62 07-13-2007 02:26 PM

Is The Pledge of Allegiance Un-American?
The Pledge of Allegiance has always struck me as a ritual that is in complete opposition to the principles upon which the U.S. was founded. It reeks of blind obedience to the state; something that is more in line with totalitarianism.

No other Democratic country has a Pledge of Allegiance. I believe only one other country had such a pledge -- can't remember which country, at the moment.

It's also interesting to note that the author of The Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy, was a socialist, and critic of the capitalist system.

The whole controversy over whether or not the words under-God should be included in the text of the Pledge has always been a non-issue, to me. The bigger issue is whether or not we should even be clinging to such an antiquated display of patriotism which, in my opinion, has never represented what this country professes to be about.

Patriotism is something that should come from the heart, and be a free choice. You can't instill true patriotism in your country's citizens by having them perform such a mindless ritual as The Pledge of Allegiance.

The Duke 07-14-2007 03:22 AM

I've searched it , and there is nowhere I could find one solitary factoid linking Francis Bellamy to socialism , unless you happen to think being a Baptist minister is the same as being a socialist ........

I'm sure you are right about patriotism but the mix with religious belief is also culpable when the position is "Patriotism should come from the heart ....Religion should also comes from the heart "

So let's say you are a Baptist , why go to worship in a catholic Church then , you see you are not patriotic to catholicism ,. but rather to Baptism .

Another solid point , there comes a time when each person must admit that when they no longer have a heart for the country or religion in which they reside , they should ask themselves why they continue to stay there ..and they should thoroughly investigate not only the reason that they choose to stay , but whether or not their staying in a place that is not in their heart serves the purpose of mutual benefit from applied society and religion ....In short it would be far better for everyone if that person were to move on away to somewhere else where their heart may lay ..say China , Or Russia , Or Iran !

Kent I still hold by my resolve and firm belief that if a person who is an American by heart , but not one by soul were to emigrate to China ,Russia , or Iran even , they would come back to the USA screaming ...and they would shut up forever when it comes to topics like say Patriotism

Just like Joni Mitchell once sang pal , " You don't know what you got till it's gone !"

and in the words of Forest Gump : " thats all I have to say about the word "Patriotism ! ":D

Earthling 07-14-2007 12:10 PM

Is The Pledge of Allegiance Un-American?
Actually, considering the make up of mankind, I'd say the 'Pledge', is solely American. It's a very important aspect of brainwashing 1st & 2nd graders long before they have any idea of what the words mean. Afterall, that is when all of us are taught to recite it, isn't it?
By the way, the REAL word is 'Patridioticism'.:cool:

kjh62 07-14-2007 07:12 PM

Bellamy was most certainly a Christian Socialist, and influenced heavily by his brother Edward's socialist utopian novels. But it's really not that important, either way.

I always thought the Pledge was a ridiculous ritual. It's not the way to instill love of country in kids. But it's a great way to turn them into blind, obedient servants of the state.

brightpearl 07-14-2007 08:09 PM

I'd like to stronlgy, deeply, fervently recommend this book:
Children's Story, by James Clavell (yes, the Shogun guy)

Oooh, full text is here. It's super short.

eta: Just to clarify, what I love about this book is that it emphasizes the danger of blind allegiance, and the importance of teaching critical thinking to the preservation of democracy and resiliance against propaganda. If you read this lovely gem of an allegory, be sure to think of it in its contemporary context -- I came of age during the Cold War, and my father read this with me when it came out. I was nine. It made a big impression.

kjh62 07-15-2007 12:16 AM

There's a lot of disturbing truth in that story. Thanks for sharing it.

brightpearl 07-15-2007 12:39 AM

I'm glad you liked it. I don't post in (or even read) this area of the board often, but I made an exception for that book.

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