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-   -   This is the thread where we talk about our feelings. (http://www.zefrank.com/bulletin_new/showthread.php?t=11448)

brightpearl 09-06-2013 10:34 AM

Yes, yes...thinking of you. Take good care.

YsaPur EsChomuw 09-06-2013 01:38 PM

me too


Hyakujo's Fox 09-06-2013 02:18 PM

Hope you're doing okay today. More *hugs*

Jack Flanders 09-06-2013 06:20 PM

Here's some more hugs...

Brynn 09-07-2013 04:47 PM

I remember when I was 17, for the week of my father's funeral, my family was innundated with delicious cassaroles dripping with cheese and buttery carbs and crunchy good things - the super comfort food of love. I remember taking huge warm bites of these new flavors that I didn't have cook myself and thinking "how can this taste so good when I feel so sad and awful?" It was like my body and my spirit were at complete odds with each other. In the time it took to smell, taste, chew, swallow, and feel my stomach fill with unfamiliar concoctions from other families and tribes, my body insisted on its own survival and sustenance. For whole minutes at a time, the food said "Here, take a break. This is good."
Sending you a big cassarole of your favorite things today, Freida.

Jack Flanders 09-09-2013 04:33 AM

Welcome to new another insane world, Pearly!! ;)

Peregrine 09-09-2013 10:29 PM

I think that we as a society need to rethink what we think we know about depression and suicide. From bitter experience, one all too recent, I just don't think that the standard cliches hold up. It can't always be a cry for help, or just looking for attention. It can't always be hoping they'll be found before it's too late. It can't always be that they think they'll be back. Maybe sometimes it is, but it can't always.

Sometimes I think that some people reach a point where they think can't cope anymore. The cries for help before didn't get them any better, and they're done crying. They can't be hoping to be found just in time, because they know that it will be so long before…

I'm left thinking; could I have said something that might have changed the outcome? Maybe commented on that witty Facebook post, instead of breezing past. Maybe gone less than a month between casual hellos. Maybe gotten around to inviting them to dinner like we'd planned. Just one simple kindness that seemed so meaningless at the time; could it have changed the course? Triggered the realization that maybe somebody does care? Or would that just delay inevitable? Was it inevitable?

I don't know. I don't really suffer from depression myself, so I can only imagine what it must take to become that desperate. I am a very pro-science individual, but psychology is a very young science, and I've seen it fail too many times. We have so far yet to go.

All I can say is, to anyone else who might be struggling, please, hang in there. Please. The world isn't perfect, and we all have our ups and downs. Don't get off the ride just because you've reached bottom. It won't always be this way. There will be good times again, I promise. Sometimes you will come around again and feel down, and maybe you'll feel like it will never be like it was before, that time, that trip, that hike, that night kicking our ass at Medal of Honor. But please, hang in just a little longer. There will be good times again. I know there will.

brightpearl 09-09-2013 11:44 PM

^Wow, I feel ya, man. I have had my ups and downs too, but like you I don't think I have ever had a real clinical depression. I have, however, done my very, very best to help some people who did, and ultimately I couldn't do much. It was a huge disappointment both to me and the sufferer every time. Anti-depressants help, they really do, if the person finds the right combination, and then if they manage to switch when an SSRI stops working, for example. But, though there are some people who respond very well and only need them short-term, for others they seem to just make things barely bearable, or maybe give them that little bit of energy to invest in something that will help more thoroughly and permanently, like counseling.

Three things come to mind that I want to share with you. None of them are solutions; they're just things that I have found compelling in my great deal of thinking about this issue:
1. People who jump and survive ofter report mid-air regret.

2. One of the best explanations of what it feels like to be chemically, clinically depressed, with a really lovely ending, from Hyperbole and a Half. That whole blog is great. Some of her childhood stories are hysterically funny, and yet you get glimpses of early signs of her future mental struggles.

3. Radical acceptance is very interesting. In terms of suicidal thoughts, if there is something so terrible about life or yourself that you'd rather die than accept it, perhaps it would be helpful if you could accept it. Easier said than done, but there are some resources for cognitive-behavioral therapy structured around this idea.

Caring about and for a depressed person is extremely painful, so radical acceptance can be helpful for the friend or family member as well. Once you accept the way things are, you can look to see whether there is anything that can be changed actively, and you can accept passive waiting for things to evolve if there is not.

Thanks for bringing this up. Take good care of yourself.

Brynn 09-10-2013 05:56 AM

Sure, there is always something more that we can do for anybody and everybody all the time - it's just impossible to know who needs it the most. We are merely human, without unlimited sources of energy, time and discernment, unfortunately.
I considered suicide a long time ago when I was 19 and had never experienced so much pain and grief before, so had no idea how to handle it. I remember just wanting the pain to end. I was not thinking about how hurt my family would be, and wasn't worried about friends because I truly felt I had no one who cared about me at that time in my life.
I don't think a superficial fix like one random kind word, a comment on Facebook or a dinner invitation would have convinced me not to go through with it. The only thing that kept me alive until I could adjust to the pain and accept it was a counselor who made a deal with me to just keep showing up for future appointments I made at the end of each session. She said I always had the option of killing myself later if I still wanted to, and indeed, I would have that option for the rest of my life. That seemed reasonable to me, and I appreciated that she took my intentions seriously.

Peregrine 09-10-2013 08:31 AM

Thanks, guys.

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