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Old 06-20-2007, 12:46 AM   #136
Jack Flanders
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yes, yes, yes. Topcat liberal gentleman. Nothing wrong with that.

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Old 06-20-2007, 12:48 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madasacutsnake
Duke, this is interesting. Do you consider that perhaps politics and economics play a part in eastern dissatisfaction with the West? And that possibly jihadism is a tool to manipulate that dissatisfaction for political and economic gain?

I have always found it hard to swallow that a group of prosperous and enfranchised people suddenly decide that it would be a great idea to pop out and kill some people from another religion. After all, there's plenty of stuff about smoting and stoning in the Bible and generally western people dont feel the need to smote and stone.
Dammit, and I was just about to smite something.

FWIW, I thought this was a very polite effort to draw you out, Duke.
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Old 06-20-2007, 02:54 PM   #138
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Geez

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Originally Posted by trisherina View Post
Dammit, and I was just about to smite something.

FWIW, I thought this was a very polite effort to draw you out, Duke.
Now I get it ....
And when I answered that it was mainly focused on poverty and religious intolerance , I was accused of using rhetoric .

I believe if you pick up any newspaper today from the middle east and either read it ( interpreted or otherwise) you will find out that I virtually nailed it .

I dunno what Mad is beefing about , I gave the answer I though was best . not his answer !
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Old 06-20-2007, 02:56 PM   #139
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Mad I even asked you

Quote:
Originally Posted by madasacutsnake View Post
^^

There.

Or to recap...............

Duke: Islam is really bad!

Snake: Maybe we could discuss some of your other views

Duke: Islam is really really bad!

Snake: Ok. If you don't have anything else to discuss, forget it

Duke: Islam is really really bad and you are ignorant.

Snake: I'm not ignorant and I wanted to hear your other views

Duke: Well then, would you like to talk about how Islam is bad?

Snake: No.

Now really ,. You and I both know that I never said that , but of course you did ....just recently !


I said this :

It's religion

Quote:
I don't think it's the politics , because in most of the hard line Islamic countries the Mullah is the boss ..he doesn't get elected by people , he appoints himself in the name of Alah ...
It's self inflicted Poverty :
Quote:
I do consider the fact that most of these countries are dirt poor , under-educated and stressed out by various factors of tyranny and serfdom .
It's unconditional control and submission :
Quote:
You see uneducated people will always allow others who appoint themselves to think and act for them , this syndrome of responsibility by proxy grows from a weak social system where higher education takes a back seat to superstition and myths.
Then there is valid comparison by view:
Quote:
What we have here are in the west are a group , or shall we say a society of hard working , highly educated enfranchised people who are busily debating about whether they should defend themselves from an onslaught by a group of bloodthirsty Disenfrachised Cro-Magnons who's belief is that their way is the only way , and we accomodate them about this in lieu to actually planning a solid defense first and offering them our help second .

Then some personal BS I should have left out but because I lead men not to find me , but instead to find themselves , soooo I just couldn't resist :
Quote:
You may not know this but I Coach Footbal ,and having been among the Champs , I came to find out at an early stage that indeed the best offense is a very good and integer Defense
.


Then the right of choice of course :
Quote:
Of course this debate can be seen in many different ways , as it takes place everywhere in the west.

This unwanted , and unpopular War for example was not something just suddenly decided , but grew out of repeated acts of failed diplomacy spanning six US administrations Carter's was the administration that broke the camels back.
And now the substance YOU can find written in black and white in the unholy Quran , by Bakhari under Suras 2 through 9 , remember they are saying what mostly amounts to this , not I :
Quote:
The same culture or civilization if you want to call it that , is attempting to destroy our Democracy.
They will not listen to any form of reason coming from us , nor will they make any concessions or compromises to allow for our two civilizations of alter beliefs to coincide in any form of peace , unless that peace means that we don the yoke , pay Jizyah and become their infidel slaves .

Again a Comparison and some mild advice:
Quote:
Surely there is plenty of smite and smote in the old bible (Old Testament ), but when was the last time you heard any Christian , or preacher , or even the Pope holler "Glory Be to God let's cut off all their heads and drink their blood for they are no good and do not believe as we do." ?

Jesus never ever said that , in fact he said exactly the opposite ....

Only I am sorry to say , Jesus is not here to save us now ....He gave us the Tools ....of which I am 100% convinced he learned his philosophies under the tutelage of the Confucions..No I think we are going to have to come together as one western world and think and act our way through this ...


And lastly the plain old simple truth :

Quote:
THere is no Kiss and Make up coming from Usama ben Ladin ,and the Mullahs , so the choices are extremely limited to us !


I say Confront them , tell them who we are , what we stand for , and that we aren't going to change for them ..they on the other do not have to change for us .

Simply put, " all violence from all sides must be condemned and stopped , but it takes two to tango , nobody will be allowed to dance alone at this contest.

We may have to reform our view of Islam indeed , and Islam will certainly have to reform their view of the rest of the world , the non Islamic world !
I would like to add that I never considered you to be an ignorant person , nor am I about to begin thinking of you as ignorant ...maybe just a little confused which is perfectly normal by all standards ...just look at the world today and it's easy to know why misunderstandings are commonplace .

I hope I explained myself to the fullest of your understanding , because I know we both don't wear the same pair of sunglasses ..do you know that ?

Last edited by The Duke : 06-20-2007 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:45 AM   #140
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I'm sorry, Duke, I missed that in its first iteration. I vaguely remember tuning out right around the football analogy. My apologies.

As for this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke
Surely there is plenty of smite and smote in the old bible (Old Testament ), but when was the last time you heard any Christian , or preacher , or even the Pope holler "Glory Be to God let's cut off all their heads and drink their blood for they are no good and do not believe as we do." ?
Well, considering I had to teach the story of Elijah slaying the false prophets at Sunday school last summer -- to children -- my hands are not at all clean in this regard, even though in the end we talked about the likelihood that prayer does/doesn't affect the weather and planted seeds in peat pots instead.
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:10 AM   #141
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Trish

It's one thing to teach Children about Biblical historical Violence , especially when it is toned with the idea that murder is wrong as the Christian and most monotheistic faiths will , but it's another thing entirely to teach kids that murder is okay ,especially when it is toned with the idea that Jews are pigs and monkeys to be destroyed , and that all non believers should either convert to Islam or suffer the sword .

There's absolutely nothing wrong in giving a history lesson , however I blame anyone who willfully induces others to repeat that bloody history !
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:10 AM   #142
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The Christian Bible is hardly at great pains to unequivocally endorse the wrongness of murder. It is quite happy explaining where and when murder is good -- as an act of ultimate faith, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duke
it's another thing entirely to teach kids that murder is okay ,especially when it is toned with the idea that Jews are pigs and monkeys to be destroyed , and that all non believers should either convert to Islam or suffer the sword
And Christianity teaches kids that nonbelievers will writhe in eternal Hell. I'll take the sword, thanks -- much faster! You've talked a little about your belief that Muslims are "uneducated" in terms of "myth and superstition" ruling the day. How do you explain educated Muslims clinging to their faith, then? How is this different from various Western leaders who claim to be in personal contact with the deities of their choice? Are they uneducated and dangerous too, what with that whole writhing in Hell thing?

It seems to me that the key is not about murder or not. It's about being allowed/encouraged to be materially successful. To the point that religious beliefs prevent that, they breed violence, ignorance, and oppression better than violent rhetoric could hope to achieve.
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:14 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by trisherina View Post
The Christian Bible is hardly at great pains to unequivocally endorse the wrongness of murder. It is quite happy explaining where and when murder is good -- as an act of ultimate faith, for example.



And Christianity teaches kids that nonbelievers will writhe in eternal Hell. I'll take the sword, thanks -- much faster! You've talked a little about your belief that Muslims are "uneducated" in terms of "myth and superstition" ruling the day. How do you explain educated Muslims clinging to their faith, then? How is this different from various Western leaders who claim to be in personal contact with the deities of their choice? Are they uneducated and dangerous too, what with that whole writhing in Hell thing?

It seems to me that the key is not about murder or not. It's about being allowed/encouraged to be materially successful. To the point that religious beliefs prevent that, they breed violence, ignorance, and oppression better than violent rhetoric could hope to achieve.
Exactly , I firmly believe in a strong divide between church and state ....

In my belief there is no God we must all kneel to ,There is no burning fire of hell , after we die there is nothing , nada , there is no reason to fear anything spiritual when you calculate the Universal odds of life on Earth .

I agree zealots and Skypiots in power are detrimental to humanity , and it doesn't make any difference if the Skypilot is in a Palace in Teheran or in the White House ....

How do I explain educated people clinging to myths ?

Easy , 200 years ago this world had not seen levels of education as we see today ....Our current technology would have flipped people out as little as 100 years ago

400 Years ago scholars believed the world to be flat , and that if you sailed to it's edge you would fly off into the sun that revolved around the Earth

I'd say that based on the fact that recent clinical studies show that man commonly uses less than 1/3 of his total grey matter , that we are on our way to enlightenment .

The process is slow and ever changing , But God won't be at the end of the tunnel we are all in .


Should we agree to the fact that we are all just really stupid , or that we tend to over-exagerate just how far we have come in the evolution of our own minds ?

Last edited by The Duke : 06-21-2007 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:07 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
Should we agree to the fact that we are all just really stupid , or that we tend to over-exagerate just how far we have come in the evolution of our own minds ?
oh yes yes yes.
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Old 06-21-2007, 06:18 PM   #145
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oh yes yes yes.
Well thats one vote ,anyone else ?
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:05 AM   #146
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no, I just think she just had a happy.
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:59 AM   #147
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It's nice to see the happiness at the sudden realization , but really which one of these did you pick ?



Or are you smiling because you just secretly agree too ?
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:16 AM   #148
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She's advising you that you're prone to the same syndrome, Duke. The fact that I have to spell it out kind of proves the point!
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:26 AM   #149
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^^^ dummass.
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:33 PM   #150
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She's advising you that you're prone to the same syndrome, Duke. The fact that I have to spell it out kind of proves the point!
Surely , I only answered a question that was leveled at me in the expected manner , and I answered in kind with a rather obvious question , so i can say from now on ask a stupid question expect a stupid question in return right ........?

But I don't realy work that way , if someone asks I entertain their question no matter how trivial , and I ask them a question of the same variety ....Don't ask me , it's Freud , and it causes some people to actually think , while those who don't become absorbed with their own petty jealousy .

We're all prone to stupidity and no one is exempt of the human condition not even the anal retentive despite their uncommon beliefs , and on top of that nobody gets out of here alive .

My guess is that one of the moderators will probably ticket me for being insulting again because that person called me a dumass ....Call it compounded interest if you like ....

Like I really care what most people think , because they only think of themselves anyway ....lmao

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