ZEFRANK.COM - message board  

Go Back   ZEFRANK.COM - message board > DEBATE HALL
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-31-2006, 03:48 AM   #46
Brynn
constantly amazed
 
Brynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: in the labyrinth of shared happiness
Posts: 6,206
This is so interesting - Judging by what's said about Dionysus in Wikipedia and everything I'd grown up learning about him in high school Latin class, as a young mythology enthusiast, and later while researching for roles in classic Greek plays, I'm afraid I still see no great parallels between the two. Others might find it more meaningful, but I have to admit that my common sense is a little challenged on that front.
However, the googling on the parallels between Jesus and Osiris and then Jesus and Horus were a bit more interesting. The first link I found unconvincing simply because it was taken from a single source - a book written in 1999. It's just a list of assertions from the book, I assume, which I'd have to actually read to form any real opinion on it. Compared to the research I've done in the past about the New Testament as a historical document, it would have to be pretty compelling.
The second was deemed most reliable elsewhere on the site, but after a whole long list of similarities, at the very end, it says the following:
Quote:
Reactions of Egyptologists: Ward Gasque, a volunteer book reviewer for Amazon.com surveyed twenty contemporary Egyptologists.
He asked them about the origins of Jesus' name, the relationship between Horus and Jesus, whether both experienced a virgin birth, and whether the Egyptian religion considered Hourus to be an incarnation of God. Ten responded, They agreed:
Jesus' name is a Greek form of a very common Semitic name Jeshu'a, which is normally translated into English as Joshua.
There is no evidence that Horus was born of a virgin, that he had twelve disciples, or that he was considered incarnation of God. 2
This is in the very same internet article that's saying the opposite, so I appreciate that there was a disclaimer, even if it comes at the end after the misinformation has had its desired effect.

I guess I could google some more, but these were at the top of the pile. With time and patience, however, an exhaustive search on the internet could yield just about anything, but I'm kind of a "show me the original text" person.
It's such an interesting idea - I've always been fascinated by sets of coincidences. Some of my favorites are the amazing parallels between Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy, for instance. It's all really entertaining, and fun to think about, especially the way science fiction writers can go to town with the whole idea of folds in the time-space continuum - but when it comes to faith, I guess I'm more biased towards trusting my own experiences with Jesus over other stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trisherina
I find it difficult to see Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour, and without that, Christians merely tolerate my friendly mien at church.
You know, I wince at this for two reasons. One is because even though I call myself a believer, I have trouble with the everyday, practical applications that would indeed indicate that I have actually gone ahead and annointed Jesus as my "personal Lord and Saviour." Honestly, I think if I truly did consider him that, I think a lot of things would go a lot smoother for me, and a lot of other Christians, too, for that matter - and perhaps hypocrisy wouldn't be such a huge problem in the church. But we all know how hard it is when someone cuts you off in traffic, or you want to bitch-slap a random member of the Bush family just for fun, or "round up" on your timesheet at work. How would my life change if I really could turn my self-control and personal sense of justice completely over to a higher ideal?

The second reason I wince is because there is so much truth in what you say. I know exactly what you mean about the "merely tolerate" part. It's a kind of polite distance, a barely imperceptable cold shoulder that says "we really can't let you into the tribe - we might get infected - but we'll pray for you." It kind of reeks, however unintentioned it might be, and personally, my agenda-radar goes up as well. In fact, lately, the whole agenda thing has really started to bug me.
I've been thinking and reading about this guy named Carlton Pearson and the "gospel of inclusion" ever since I heard a piece done about him recently on NPR's "This American Life" called "Heretics." You can click on the link at the bottom of his home page to listen to it.
Heretics

That, combined with the writing of Brian McLaren and his thoughts on the postmodern church (A Generous Orthodoxy and A New Kind Of Christian) have really set me thinking about what the views of Jesus himself might be with the whole "gots to have Jesus" thing you're talking about. If you get a chance, listen to the broadcast and tell me what you think.
__________________
1. While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and make clockwise circles.
2. Now, while doing this, draw the number "6" in the air with your right hand.
3. Your foot will change direction.
Brynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 04:36 AM   #47
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
I will listen to it, though probably not until early in the week.

As for the whole "myth" business -- I recall some comparisons to Homeric myth along the way, too. It's not so much the specifics of the myths as the doubt instilled in me by the comparisons that's meaningful personally. As to where I first heard these notions, a skeptical peer brought it up back when I was attending Bible studies, and I discussed it with the usual amateur Biblical historians that attend such things in droves. Like you, it doesn't bother them much. I have a different reaction, but it's entirely possible I've been influenced by one too many issues of Skeptic magazine.

As for the people at church, they don't tolerate me any better or worse than a lot of other places.
trisherina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 07:29 PM   #48
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
Brynn, I tried to listen to the streaming audio but it would only let me get to a couple of minutes -- I'm having trouble with my cable company's interpretation of superhighspeed internet. I read a little about Carlton Pearson on his website. Which views of his were you thinking about most?
trisherina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 08:32 PM   #49
Brynn
constantly amazed
 
Brynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: in the labyrinth of shared happiness
Posts: 6,206
Hey, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect to be loved and cherished and celebrated for the thoughtful, intelligent, delightful individual you are - especially at church - not just merely tolerated. Who knows? Maybe you're there to show them how.

I'm so sorry about the link. You might run into the same problem at the "This American Life" website archives or the NPR site, but those might be worth trying. I download the podcasts to iTunes every week, which seems to work well for me.
It's an unusual story for that radio show - but as usual, they handle it beautifully.
I found his story to be pretty dramatic and it provided lots of food for thought. This particular radio show is consistently good for that anyway.
Basically, he was a very prominent American pastor who stopped believing in hell.
Carleton Pearson grew up in a very poor, Pentacostal/charismatic home - his father was a preacher, and the church was way out there in terms of the service - lots of people talking in tongues, people getting slain in the spirit, exorcisms. Hellfire, brimstone. He performed his first exorcism when he was 16 or 17 - and it was on his girlfriend! He's a very funny person, btw, very engaging. The show also emphasized his scholarship and his constant study of the Bible in the original languages - he got to be very proficient with getting the right interpretation for translation, etc.
Anyway, he went on to preach alongside his father, and when he got older, went to Oral Roberts University as a way to get out from under the poverty - "but in a sanctified way." There he became quite close to Oral Roberts himself, who came to see him as a second son. With that kind of mentorship and sponsorship, soon he was addressing huge crowds, was a regular in and out of the White House through three presidencies, and had a mega-church to pastor.
All of which to say is that he was as plugged in as an american evangelical could be, with a huge following. His operating budget was something in the $100,000/week range, if I recall correctly. Then there was scandal. Not the kind of scandal we normally think of in terms of Jim Baker or that guy scoring drugs from the male hooker - but in a way, socially it was worse - he was labelled "heretic," and from there his 'empire' crumbled.
He talks very movingly of how he was sitting in front of the TV one day with his fat, healthy little toddler daughter. He was watching a mother starving somewhere in Africa, and her tiny baby with a bloated stomach hanging on by a thread - flies settled on them, etc. Your typical scene of horror and poverty.
He prayed "God, I don't know if I can believe in you if you're the kind of god who can let his creatures live in such horrible misery, and then whisk them right into hell because they never heard of you." God answered him "You think that we do that? You think they are not already in hell?" He talks at length about the conversation he had with God about it, with God challenging him, since he's so concerned about it, to get out there and save every last soul. Pearson is forced to admit that he could never do that. That's when God said "That's right. You can't. That's my job." After, Pearson became convinced that hell is a human construct, and that 1500 years of teaching about who God is - a vengeful Judge instead of a loving father - has been completely wrong. He started looking around at the emergency rooms and the divorce courts and the homelessness, and the prisons and became convinced that hell is something that man creates here on earth.

Basically, now he believes that, as it says in the book of John, that Jesus died for everybody, once and for all. And that in the end, although he acknowleges Jesus as his savior, and he worships Jesus as the Son of God, he no longer believes that anyone even really has to believe in Jesus in order to get into Heaven, because it's all paid for anyway. This has led him down some roads he never thought he would travel - he beautifully describes a packed, all-gay church that he recently was asked to speak at, for instance - something he would never have done in the old days because of the taboos - and it's really moving how he describes the absolute love radiating out of there. He's convinced that were Jesus ministering today, he would be in the margins of society rather than the mainstream standing next to Jerry Falwell and Pat Roberts. After losing absolutely everything for his beliefs, Pearson's "gospel of inclusion" is beginning to grow and attract followers - the opposite of what established church leaders said would happen ("It's all going to degenerate into a pit of sin").

It really is a wonderful broadcast if you can hear it all. I like his story because it's a story of renewal - a story simply of how someone, entrenched in the system, gradually changes his mind.
__________________
1. While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and make clockwise circles.
2. Now, while doing this, draw the number "6" in the air with your right hand.
3. Your foot will change direction.

Last edited by Brynn : 01-02-2007 at 08:49 PM.
Brynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2007, 01:23 AM   #50
trisherina
meretricious dilettante
 
trisherina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,068
Well, thanks for summing it up so beautifully for me. We plan to engage in some browbeating with the cable service (we're now on our FOURTH PVR) next week, and then maybe things will work a bit better. I hope.

Anyway, a couple of those conclusions I'd already drawn myself -- most notably, the one about it being "God's job" to show people the way, should they need showing. I puzzled it out (again during the previously noted Bible study efforts) when I had to somehow reconcile the fact that many of my Sikh and Islamic and atheist and agnostic friends live their lives far closer to the Christian ideal than so many of the Christians I've known in my lifetime, yet I was supposed to feel called to go and "save" them? Uh-uh. Basically, my experience of God comes in two flavours: 1) Einsteinian: my sense of wonder in the universe, and 2) moral: God's a nag. Number 2) is important, because I was given almost no moral guidelines to follow in my upbringing -- not because my parents are atheists but because they were uninterested -- yet I persist in being driven along certain moral lines that aren't always based on simple rational self-interest. So I figure God could probably nag other people, too, if it were all that important to their eternal well-being. Yet that doesn't seem to happen.

As for hell being here on Earth, well, ask any adolescent and they'll tell you the same thing. That's always been entirely possible.

So again, I wonder why we need Jesus for all this? I mean, don't get me wrong; he's terrific. But does he need to be deified? That was the issue that ended my communal Bible studies, by the way. I noted that I just couldn't accept the resurrection story as literal -- in that it contained elements readily found in other pre-Christian myths. Like Saul says in The Last Temptation of Christ, it doesn't really matter if it's true or not; it's the power of the story that's important. It's a story that obviously united a lot of people around a radical (at the time) cause, and that to me is the real power. When I shared this, I was told that accepting the resurrection as literal is "part of the package" of being a Christian. I can understand that; things often come with undesirable bits as part of a package: for instance, if you suppress your appetite drives such that you lose touch with them and their meanings, you not only lose touch with your sense of hunger, but also your sense of satiety (one of the reasons why dieters binge). I could respect it well enough. If I couldn't or wouldn't just accept this as literal, I wasn't going to get the desirable parts of the package (like knowing I was saved), either. And I guess that's where we parted ways. Some days, I can still feel a sense of closeness to that which I think of as God, and I am grateful for it. But I guess I'm just too pigheaded to have someone tell me that thinking anything so far from the slash of Occam's Razor is "essential." So I guess I'll just have to wait and see how Pascal's Wager comes out in the end.
trisherina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2007, 04:49 PM   #51
Brynn
constantly amazed
 
Brynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: in the labyrinth of shared happiness
Posts: 6,206
Where Pearson pissed so many people off eventually was that he also came to the conclusion that if there is no need to fear hell, and everyone has a get-out-of jail card free, then there's really no need to embrace Jesus as a way to avoid a non-existent hell.

And yet he continues to preach Jesus as savior, the Lamb of God, the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world, the one who is coming back, etc.
I think what happened to him was that in this fresh "revelation" that he claims came from God, he found that God was even more merciful and loving than he'd imagined before. He obviously feels that it's still important to worship Jesus, because he still does - he just doesn't feel compelled to accost every stranger he's seated next to on a plane to question their level of faith out of some concern that they'll burn in hell and their blood will be on his hands if he doesn't.

I like the whole paradigm shift to worshipping Jesus out of gratitude rather than fear, and it seems more consistent with the idea that "perfect love casts out fear." Plus, it speaks to my own experiences better when the Holy Spirit is portrayed as operating in a quiet mode of gentle persuasion rather than with a hammer and anvil - although when it comes to the problem of pain, C.S. Lewis has quite a lot to say about God's use of it to get our attention.

Eliminating hell altogether is also problematic because there are such clear passages talking about the fiery lake, etc. but unless I'm mistaken, that's something reserved for Satan and his minions, not mankind. Even so, the Bible does support the idea that people who choose to turn their backs on God will simply get what they want - a complete and total separation from God's presence. And that might not be such a good thing if God turns out to be pure love, as many think.

I do believe there are wonderful benefits to worshipping Jesus even without hell in the picture.
__________________
1. While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and make clockwise circles.
2. Now, while doing this, draw the number "6" in the air with your right hand.
3. Your foot will change direction.
Brynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2007, 03:52 AM   #52
rapscalious rob
Have a Gorilla.
 
rapscalious rob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: There, everyone likes a Gorilla.
Posts: 178
Quote:
Brynn
I've been thinking and reading about this guy named Carlton Pearson and the "gospel of inclusion" ever since I heard a piece done about him recently on NPR's "This American Life" called "Heretics." You can click on the link at the bottom of his home page to listen to it.
Funny -- I tried adding a link to that (the TAL "Heritics" episode) a few months ago. I ended up trying to add an attachment, since the link was rejected as some kind of hacking attempt or something, and then the server crashed & I gave up.

I really enjoyed that episode of TAL
__________________
You go skipping and prancing through life, skipping through a field of dandelions. But what you donít see is that on each dandelion is a bee, and on each bee is an ant, and the ant is biting the bee and the bee is biting the flower, and if that shocks you then Iím sorry.
rapscalious rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2007, 07:10 AM   #53
ManOWhore
Itchy Lipper
 
ManOWhore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lexington, NJ
Posts: 5
I apologize for seeming a bit off center about my thoughts on Modern Christian Posturing. But, me and my boss talked on end how we wanted to crack the good book open and read all the juicy-juice.

Problem with it, is that when you get past all the meaty stories you hit this wall of impenetrable books/lists of names, places, locations; which are (thankfully) not hidden behind some exciting introduction. That's right, God was nice enough to let us know from the start, which books offer what, and to whom. These detail savvy texts are out there for those faithful/diehard people to read. Their also there for those that love god enough to memorize them as well.

Last edited by ManOWhore : 01-30-2007 at 07:15 AM.
ManOWhore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 04:17 AM   #54
Brynn
constantly amazed
 
Brynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: in the labyrinth of shared happiness
Posts: 6,206
I always skip those, but am oddly comforted to know that they are there. It's kind of like that Vietnam memorial wall in Washington - lists and lists and lists of individual names that mean something to someone somewhere.
__________________
1. While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and make clockwise circles.
2. Now, while doing this, draw the number "6" in the air with your right hand.
3. Your foot will change direction.
Brynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2007, 11:46 PM   #55
lostsadie
Pigmy person...
 
lostsadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Memphissippi
Posts: 336
Pigmy person grabs a soapbox:

I feel that it is sad that in a way that the bible's Jesus pushed people away from God with "the only path to my father is through me" way of thinking. I think he was right, for some people. But to force us all through the same needle hole is unfair and unrealistic. His teachings were good, his whole point; I believe, was to bring people to goodness or godliness. About every religion out there points to the same thing. Be good, do good for it is good for you to be so. Jesus was an uncomplicated person, and son of God or not and he fought and died for what he believed in, if for nothing else I respect him for that.

Every person is different and so has a different path in life; if the path to God for you is Jesus then I am happy for you for finding your path, a path to understanding and light, goodness and grace. I just don't feel that God would turn a good person away just because they weren't good as a direct result of Jesus' teaching. Good is Good. Be you a Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, Wicken, Jewish... whatever. The point is to get rid of the superficial crap in life. And to embrace the important things, finding beauty amid the horrors of life. And working to make the world around you a better place.

Ok so there is a possibility that a special spot in hell awaits me for thinking as I do, but if God isn't the type of God I think he is, I see no point in believing in him. If God is so biased he doesn't deserve worship, he needs a talking to. He doesn't practice what he preaches, so to speak.

But, I think it was man who has turned Spirituality into a club type atmosphere...something like: if you don't have brown eyes you can't go to heaven cause God only likes brown eyes...God didn't do that people did. Jesus didn't either, he was attempting to allow more people into the club, sick, down trodden, poor people who were never invited before. Man has invented the criteria for entering heaven and man's criteria ends up pushing people away not drawing them in as Jesus intended.

Poor Jesus, to have died to save us and we still don't get it, as I said it's sad.
__________________
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.

Last edited by lostsadie : 02-11-2007 at 11:58 PM.
lostsadie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2007, 11:00 PM   #56
auntie aubrey
excursions
 
auntie aubrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: beyond the call of duty
Posts: 2,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostsadie
if God isn't the type of God I think he is, I see no point in believing in him. If God is so biased he doesn't deserve worship, he needs a talking to. He doesn't practice what he preaches, so to speak.

i appreciate your wisdom. also, the sensitive way in which you presented your views. i'm not half as sensitive as i should be.
__________________
that dog won't hunt, monsignor
auntie aubrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2007, 11:44 PM   #57
Brynn
constantly amazed
 
Brynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: in the labyrinth of shared happiness
Posts: 6,206
Hi lostsadie, thanks so much for your post!
I agree that man in general has set himself up as the gatekeeper to heaven - I kind of picture a big burly guy at the entrance to Studio 54 with the velvet cord and brass hook.
However, if we look closely at exactly what Jesus said in his first public discourse, the sermon on the mount, that picture couldn't be farther from the reality of what Jesus said the kingdom of heaven was like, and His "Beatitudes" are pretty clear about how to get in. Instead of looking right and doing all the right things on the surface - even good things that we normally can take pride in, Jesus seems to value our inner motives, and what's going on in the heart instead - something no Christian bouncer can see, much as they'd like to think they can. Well, let's just look at them, (and I suggest if you're really interested, read the excellent notes on this website.Perhaps because they come from an older, more thoughtful time, they're much better than anything I could say, but I'll try to distill it into a more contemporary summation) :

The beatitudes are found at Matthew 5: 3-12

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


First of all, it is so like Jesus to start off not with condemnation but with blessing. The first thing He praises and blesses is a poverty of spirit. What is that, exactly? Basically, it's the heart's reaction to the realization that there just aren't enough good deeds in the world to even begin to earn one's entry into the kingdom of heaven. They are, in fact, "as filthy rags" compared to the heaven of our wildest dreams, and the magnitude of the Creator of the Universe. As the good old preacher says "Thus poverty of spirit, a consciousness of oneís emptiness and need, results from the work of the Holy Spirit within the human heart. It issues from the painful discovery that all my righteousnesses are as filthy rags (Isa. 64:6). It follows my being awakened to the fact that my very best performances are unacceptable (yea, an abomination) to the thrice Holy One. "To recognize our arrogance in thinking that we could actually compare ourselves to God is to realize our true poverty and helplessness in the face of him, no matter what our social status. Jesus is saying that from this humility in the dirt at the foot of God, all other blessing naturally follows - it is the safe and right place to be for those who actually want his blessings. Moreover, it is in direct opposition to the teachings of the Pharisees of his day - and it pissed them off to no end, because it took away their power as arbiters of God's grace.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall possess the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called sons of God.

Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice sake,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


As I have time, I'd like to think about these others too, but that first one's a doozy as it is. I think it's far too easy for me to say stuff about Jesus that's really based on impressions and our culture and even legends that have sprung up about him instead of a careful reading of what he actually said, so I want to avoid that if possible. I think I probably do far too much of that as it is, you know? But for me, anyway, each one of these deserves closer study.
__________________
1. While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and make clockwise circles.
2. Now, while doing this, draw the number "6" in the air with your right hand.
3. Your foot will change direction.

Last edited by Brynn : 02-14-2007 at 02:25 PM. Reason: spelling
Brynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 04:25 AM   #58
totoro23
Registered User
 
totoro23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Murderapolis, MN
Posts: 2
Religion 30 years from now

I don't know if anyone else has been looking into this, but I've been reading a lot of longevity stuff lately, and there are a lot of people who believe that we have the technology to live forever. Along the lines of this thread, I'm wondering what Christians are going to do once their main scare tactic is taken away. If no one dies, then there's no way "God" can punish us any more.
It's actually kinda worrying, because I feel like a lot of Christians are going to become violently opposed to life extension and the wonders on the technological horizon.
totoro23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 09:54 AM   #59
Avalon
Moderator
 
Avalon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: A much better place
Posts: 5,931
Quote:
totoro23I don't know if anyone else has been looking into this, but I've been reading a lot of longevity stuff lately, and there are a lot of people who believe that we have the technology to live forever. Along the lines of this thread, I'm wondering what Christians are going to do once their main scare tactic is taken away. If no one dies, then there's no way "God" can punish us any more.
It's actually kinda worrying, because I feel like a lot of Christians are going to become violently opposed to life extension and the wonders on the technological horizon.

I seriously doubt we will be here in 30 years. And religion has nothing to do with my thoughts on this. ( although I am of the Christian faith )

edited for spelling
__________________
I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it.
Groucho Marx

Last edited by Avalon : 02-14-2007 at 04:30 PM.
Avalon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 02:36 PM   #60
Brynn
constantly amazed
 
Brynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: in the labyrinth of shared happiness
Posts: 6,206
There are accounts in the Bible of people being hundreds and hundreds of years old before God shortened man's lifespan out of mercy.

People of all kinds tend to be grateful nowadays for anything that extends life - miracle drugs, surgical procedures - particularly if it's their own life that's being extended. A lot of Christians see medical advances as gifts from God. I'm convinced that once extremists come to understand what stem cell research really is, for instance, and they inevitably become the benefactors of it, they might calm down about it. Besides, if they really believe that God is sovereign and not helpless in the face of man's advances, they can have a peace about just about anything that happens.

Psst - death is fairly universal, I hear...not just a scare tactic that Christians have a corner market on .

For a brief time at UCLA, I worked for Roy Walford, and became fascinated with his findings about longevity and fasting. I do think it's interesting that fasting is an almost completely neglected spiritual practice in mainstream Christianity, but there are pockets of it left in some of the more charismatic branches, and certain Catholic sects. Check him out, though - a very interesting person!
__________________
1. While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and make clockwise circles.
2. Now, while doing this, draw the number "6" in the air with your right hand.
3. Your foot will change direction.

Last edited by Brynn : 02-14-2007 at 03:10 PM.
Brynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 11:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.