MySpace Debate!!

[DrinksGlue]

I bring this debate forth on the following grounds:

I reported the following content, and begged a forum moderator to take down this post in a MySpace high school forum.

*Please take notice that the link to that forum contains inappropriate material, not suited for the 14-17 year olds who visit the forum.

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...9735DCF6098039

If I were to one day produce children, or had a child today who wanted to own their own MySpace page, I would not allow them. Did you also know that if go you to the Classifieds listings on MySpace, and under the personals pornography is allowed? Incredulous!!

This kind of tipped the scale for me, and I concluded MySpace is run by pedophiles, for pedophiles! What do you guys think on the MySpace and the underage auidence and their protection, and stuff like that?

[Brynn]

What can I say? My husband secretly uses it to keep up with what's going on with our teenage daughter (she left her login lying around once). As far as her world is concerned, it's all surprisingly innocent and reasonably wholesome - mostly chatting with friends. We brainwashed her early that porn degrades women, sex gets you pregnant, drugs make you stupid, strangers can be dangerous, the buddy system is a good system, smart friends are the best friends, and church every Sunday is generally a good idea. We do not have any internet access anywhere but in a very public common space in our home, and we make no bones about being nosy and asking lots and lots of questions about what's going on. We don't always get answers, but we keep asking. We regularly check the history, and if there's anything we're concerned about, we talk. We're hands on. Oh, and we casually make sure the kids watch "To Catch A Predator" once in a while too, making fun of kids who get into questionable online conversations with withered, dirty old men in the first place.

I question my husband's ethics about spying more than I question her exposure to MySpace. Banning it will only alienate her and cause her to question our guidance. It would be great if we could protect her from everything, but as it is, she's smart, savvy and hopefully safer than some kids who are more naive.

[lostsadie]

Kuddos for raising a savvy child...my son is the lauguage police. Don't dare say even a vaugly dirty word around him or you will suffer a scowl. Train them early and they train you later

I was shocked to realize the other day that girls his age are becoming...dum da dum...women. It's scary because he is only nine. I want to lock him up somewhere, but I know I can't. So I have tried to do what you have done and explain the whys and whats of it all...without too many details for now. Don't want to give him too many Ideas

[auntie aubrey]

Originally Posted by Brynn

I question my husband's ethics about spying more than I question her exposure to MySpace.

that's the most irresponsible thing i've ever read by a parent.

[lostsadie]

I've seen worse...much much worse.

But I agree in a way as parents we have a duty to our children to protect them. But as we can not always be at their side we must also be able to trust them. Teaching them to behave well when we are not there is a very difficult task. But they have to be able to trust us as well...snooping into their private lives doesn't help to them to trust us. If her daughter found out that he was sneeking around she would probably try to hide what she is doing be it good or bad.

I don't know what the right thing to do is really...I have tried with my child to have an open door policy where he can ask me anything, and boy does he. He thank goodness has no myspace account. I did buy him an anatomy book for christmas to help with some of his questions he has had lately. Sure I really don't want to discuss with him why ladies have those thingies and his need to know what they are and to see them...talk about uncomfortable...but I am glad he asked me about it and not the little girl down the street. I don't lie to him...but I don't overshare either.

Trust is just so very importaint. And so is my child!

[trisherina]

People who behave ethically only when being observed have no ethical or moral grounding to speak of -- only a fear of consequences -- which fluctuates wildly in accordance with the randomness of events and represents no real locus of control. The expectation for anyone, adult or child, with a normally functioning frontal lobe should be an internally driven ethical sense. The outside world will create an external system of reward and punishment with no effort on your part whatsoever. But it takes someone loved, respected, and admired by a child to instil a sense of internal locus of control -- a permanent and stable sense that provides comfort, identity, and true self-esteem, which in turn spawns compassion, empathy, and a spirit of inquiry rather than a simple adherence to rules and platitudes as they are understood.

[Brynn]

Originally Posted by auntie aubrey

that's the most irresponsible thing i've ever read by a parent.

So what's your point? That I shouldn't question the general ethics of invasion of privacy, or that you think my husband shouldn't be monitoring his minor daughter's activities, or that I shouldn't trust how I've raised my daughter and have confidence in her innate intelligence, or that you think I'm just basically irresponsible in general because you don't like me personally?

I find vague comments like these to be extremely judgmental and not very conducive to being able to wrestle with difficult issues in a safe environment amongst people whose opinions I value.

I was very open with how I dealt with it, and I'm going to continue to be open. I refuse to be bullied by people who apparently have nothing to offer to the conversation but criticism and negativity while managing to reveal nothing of their own life experience in this kind of situation.

[Brynn]

Sorry, where were we?

Originally Posted by trisherina

People who behave ethically only when being observed have no ethical or moral grounding to speak of -- only a fear of consequences -- which fluctuates wildly in accordance with the randomness of events and represents no real locus of control. The expectation for anyone, adult or child, with a normally functioning frontal lobe should be an internally driven ethical sense. The outside world will create an external system of reward and punishment with no effort on your part whatsoever. But it takes someone loved, respected, and admired by a child to instil a sense of internal locus of control -- a permanent and stable sense that provides comfort, identity, and true self-esteem, which in turn spawns compassion, empathy, and a spirit of inquiry rather than a simple adherence to rules and platitudes as they are understood.

This has been my main goal as a parent, so thank you for articulating what I couldn't.
I grew up in a large family with an authoritarian (Marine sergeant) for a father who instructed with sarcasm and enforced his rules with harsh physical punishment. I was even hit if I couldn't control my crying. He was simply passing along the curse that his own parenting engendered. Couple that with a submissive mother who was terrified of him and did her best to work against him behind his back, and what you end up with is six confused kids who hated themselves and each other (we now all live as far away from each other as possible). Then this rule-maker who controlled everything with an iron fist died while I was in high school, so I can safely say that any decision-making skills I now possess were aquired in the the hardest possible way - through bitter experience. Self-esteem was a long time in coming.
I was determined that my kids would grow up loving and respecting themselves so they could love and respect others - I even put off having kids until I felt I was healed enough to teach that one thing. I stayed at home to raise them at great cost to my career, and regret nothing. Parenting them has been an incredible tightrope of choosing how to limit them and choosing how to push them out into the world, and choosing when to just sympathize with them and let them make their own hard decisions. There's no formula for this, and fortunately I married a good man, or I'd be making it up as I went along since I have no personal models for this job beyond girlfriends I admire.

I am proud of my oldest daughter. She is fearless and wise and teaches me every day. She is not infallible, and still needs our guidance, but she's surrounded by friends who love her and has shown incredible maturity in the boys she goes out with. She gets good grades and I have every confidence that whatever she chooses to do she will be happy because she's not a people-pleaser. Her sense of morality, idealism and justice is strong, and she's generous to a fault.

I asked her what she thought about MySpace and the potential dangers. She shrugged and said
"I think parents freak out about it because it's new and they didn't grow up with it. It's really just another way to communicate with your friends - like IM or something, only there's more opportunities for being creative and expressing yourself. I mean, like, you would never pick up a phone book and just start chatting with some random person, or walk up to someone in a bus station and start telling them all your personal information."
I think she's still unclear about the privacy of these conversations, but fortunately there are a lot of tools for the vigilant parent to use, and be reassured by.

If that's the result of irresponsible parenting, Aubrey, then your own kids must be simply jaw-droppingly amazing. We are blessed as a nation for the leaders you're shaping.

I recently worked on a haunting case in which three children under the age of 5 were rescued from a car their heroin-addicted mother had locked them into. She'd left them there for two days to go off with her "boyfriend." She then had two more children, both with fetal alcohol syndrome. Her oldest son eventually ran away, but the four girls were placed in a foster home where they were sexually abused and tortured by a teenage son in the home - apparently when the foster parents weren't around.

Oh, I could have a long conversation about irresponsible parenting, even on a governmental level, but if I come off as the most irresponsible parent you've ever read about, Aubrey, then you might want to broaden your reading and awareness.

[trisherina]

Irresponsible parenting stories -- here in Canada if parents wish to divorce they are required by law to take a "divorce course" -- together or apart. I used to think this was a terrible bit of intrusion into the private lives of adults until I started listening to more of the stories of children whose parents divorce and literally think nothing of asking the child to monitor spending, dating, act as a message carrier, etc. Not to mention the stuff said most casually about the other parent when he/she is not present! And this is mild, mild, mild compared to some of the horrors children undergo every day, like the ones Brynn described. Ugh. But then there are the wonderful parents, who have difficult and unrewarding children but still love them very much, you can see it in the way they talk to the child and talk about him/her, so there is a little balance out there. Whew!

I agree with Brynn's daughter that part of the problem is a generational one -- many adults have a hard time relating just how hardwired kids are into various devices -- like profs and lecturers who go insane when kids text into their phones throughout a lecture. I think it's fascinating.

[xfox]

I never married or had children because I never found the right 'daddy'. The world's problems are really just too few mother's like Trish and Brynn. Somehow, life goes on. It's an imperfect world, but Auntie's inititiation might be like mine. I feel responsible for the absence of some good folks around here because of my comments. And I'm sorry. Anyway, I might have become a great Mom, but that experience, having never occurred and the lost to me, left me in a position of being, shall I say, independent.

Please hope with me that DrinksGlue can pursue online happiness. The name scares me, anyway, it's a free country.

[auntie aubrey]

Originally Posted by Brynn

So what's your point?

i'm not really sure how my point was missed. it's an irresponsible viewpoint for a parent to hold. period. nothing concealed in that statement.

Originally Posted by Brynn

That I shouldn't question the general ethics of invasion of privacy, or that you think my husband shouldn't be monitoring his minor daughter's activities, or that I shouldn't trust how I've raised my daughter and have confidence in her innate intelligence, or that you think I'm just basically irresponsible in general because you don't like me personally?

that you'd put hifalutin conceptual ideals above the actual safety and welfare of your child. and that you'd actually criticize your husband for exercising some responsibility to make sure she's not getting drawn into inappropriate online activity.

no one thinks their child is the one posting her titties on myspace. no one thinks their child is the one who smokes weed. no one thinks their child is the one giving blowjobs out behind the school gym. no one thinks their child is the one who plays mailbox baseball. yes you have to trust your children and trust that your teachings have permeated their conscious decision making abilities. but at the same time the responsible parent realizes that even teenagers are still kids, stretching their limits and still solidifying their understanding of the flexibility of morals and consequences. your insistence that she's "innately intelligent" just shows that you're parenting with blinders on. she may very well be a good kid, but it's up to you to make sure.

and that "dislike me personally" comment? please. was that a deliberate overreaction or are you really that self-centered? i don't know you from adam, i don't have feelings about you either way. my words are a response to your words. again, period. no hidden meaning.

Originally Posted by Brynn

I find vague comments like these to be extremely judgmental and not very conducive to being able to wrestle with difficult issues in a safe environment amongst people whose opinions I value.

and i find 15 page long meandering dissertations that could be summed up in a few sentences to be very nonconstructive as well. you may enjoy blathering on under the delusion that your thoughts are so desperately fascinating that the world hangs on your every word. not me. i don't feel the need to pontificate, and as i already said i don't see how my initial comment was at all "vague."

Originally Posted by Brynn

I was very open with how I dealt with it, and I'm going to continue to be open. I refuse to be bullied by people who apparently have nothing to offer to the conversation but criticism and negativity while managing to reveal nothing of their own life experience in this kind of situation.

bullying? get a thicker skin, kid.

[Hyakujo's Fox]

I'd just like to say personal privacy is not a hifalutin conceptual ideal.

[lostsadie]

Originally Posted by auntie aubrey

i'm not really sure how my point was missed. it's an irresponsible viewpoint for a parent to hold. period. nothing concealed in that statement.


that you'd put hifalutin conceptual ideals above the actual safety and welfare of your child. and that you'd actually criticize your husband for exercising some responsibility to make sure she's not getting drawn into inappropriate online activity.

no one thinks their child is the one posting her titties on myspace. no one thinks their child is the one who smokes weed. no one thinks their child is the one giving blowjobs out behind the school gym. no one thinks their child is the one who plays mailbox baseball. yes you have to trust your children and trust that your teachings have permeated their conscious decision making abilities. but at the same time the responsible parent realizes that even teenagers are still kids, stretching their limits and still solidifying their understanding of the flexibility of morals and consequences. your insistence that she's "innately intelligent" just shows that you're parenting with blinders on. she may very well be a good kid, but it's up to you to make sure.
and that "dislike me personally" comment? please. was that a deliberate overreaction or are you really that self-centered? i don't know you from adam, i don't have feelings about you either way. my words are a response to your words. again, period. no hidden meaning.



and i find 15 page long meandering dissertations that could be summed up in a few sentences to be very nonconstructive as well. you may enjoy blathering on under the delusion that your thoughts are so desperately fascinating that the world hangs on your every word. not me. i don't feel the need to pontificate, and as i already said i don't see how my initial comment was at all "vague."



bullying? get a thicker skin, kid.

Just wanted to point out that all bold text are personal comments despite your assurances to the contrary

Auntie...how many children do you have?

[Avalon]

I'd just like to say personal privacy is not a hifalutin conceptual ideal.

No, no, it isn't. But just how much personal privacy do you think a child should have? Should it come at the price of their safety? Common sense should come in to play here; they have parental controls on the TV ffs..why would you relinquish that same option elsewhere? You don't have to be a tyrant, but you do have to be responsible.

Too many parents want to be their kids "buddy"; afraid to discipline or even say no for fear of falling out of favor. This isn't just with older kids, it starts when they are toddlers; kids being given too many choices and not enough boundaries. These same parents are amazed when the child is suspended from school or escorted home by the cops.


No one said being a parent was easy; it is a job with long hours and no promise of advancement...and you never get to retire. It isn't a job for sissies or cowards; it is a dance on a sharp sword on a good day, Trusting your child is essential...and so is checking up on them. Know their friends, where they go/are. Make them as responsible to you as you are to them. They already have friends, what they need are parents.


* steps off soapbox*

[auntie aubrey]

Originally Posted by lostsadie

Just wanted to point out that all bold text are personal comments despite your assurances to the contrary

what are you talking about?

Originally Posted by lostsadie

Auntie...how many children do you have?

thank you for your interest in the incomings and outgoings of my cooter.

Originally Posted by Avalon

You don't have to be a tyrant, but you do have to be responsible.

Trusting your child is essential...and so is checking up on them.

thank you, this is my point as well.