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Old 02-10-2008, 11:35 PM   #1
michaelG
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Obama declared white man.

Question my caucasian friends:

Do any of you ask yourselves where the hell Obama came from ?

Did he just wake up one day and say I wanna be dah president or is he a puppet for someone ?

Change ? Yeah right.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:50 AM   #2
Tunesmith
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If you want to criticize someone's ideology, then feel free to. That's the whole point of political debate, and without it, things will inevitably become stagnant.

But if you want to insult someone based on their race, how is that any different from racism? It seems to me like there is none.
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:20 AM   #3
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what are his policies? i went to his website to find out, and there was no mention of them at all.

isn't it kind of strange how much money he's being given? could it be coming from anti-hillary reps, who want a democratic candidate they can beat easily?

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Old 02-11-2008, 09:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelG View Post
Do any of you ask yourselves where the hell Obama came from ?

Did he just wake up one day and say I wanna be dah president or is he a puppet for someone ?

Still waiting for the answers to these for Bush. Course he was white so you gotta expect that kind of thing.
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Old 02-11-2008, 10:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by skip intro View Post
could it be coming from anti-hillary reps, who want a democratic candidate they can beat easily?
But maybe the Republicans would fear a candidate like Obama more, just because he has no Washington D.C. history? Don't see why he should be a puppet of the other side

(Dunno, the way you do elections / election campaigns confuses me anyway, the astronomic fundraising the candidates have to do, this delegates thingie, ultra-personal attacks, ... - but then again, we here were without a government for a while after the last elections cos the outcome confused the parties )

Obama has some policies, imo, and not all too bad, see here for example: http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm
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Old 02-11-2008, 02:27 PM   #6
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I brought brownies.

Don't get all excited though -- that's just mint.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:21 PM   #7
Brynn
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Obama's getting all his money from small donors. Clinton's getting it from big donors, who are all pretty much tapped out now. She's theoretically in trouble because Obama's base of financial support from the internet is much wider than hers.

However, thanks to her earlier machinations as a senator and party leader before she even announced her candidacy, the 900-odd, unelected but oh-so-mysterious "super-delegates" will make sure that she will get the nomination regardless of how many popular votes Obama gets. Now that's what I call planning ahead! On one hand it sucks for our illusions of democracy here, but on the other, I can't help but think of her as a smarter, more vicious and better-positioned political animal to take on the Republicans.

At least, that's what I believe in my most cynical moments.
All that being said, I'm really just voting for Hillary because I'm sexist. I'm sick and tired of men running things. She's clear about what she wants to do, I agree with it, and frankly, I don't care if large sections of the country aren't united behind her.

Obama became an instant star at the 2004 Democratic Convention with his keynote speech that electrified depressed Dem's all over the country. Why, the first five minutes, practically, are devoted to where he came from, remember?


All well and good, but guys like that tend to get assassinated in this country, and Michelle would be pissed. Let him get a few more years under his belt.
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Last edited by Brynn : 02-16-2008 at 04:09 AM. Reason: two "l"s in Hillary
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:39 PM   #8
craig johnston
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obama = mcgovern
iraq = vietnam
mccain = nixon

discuss

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Old 02-12-2008, 08:20 AM   #9
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^Tending to a 'yes' concerning point #2 (and I fear that won't change much with any of the 3 candidates left), but I'd extend that Vietnam analogue beyond Iraq: Afghanistan, the indirect involvement in the Israel-Palestina/Lebanon/Syria conflict, maybe Pakistan too soon, hopefully not Iran (Hillary might go for that??),... - that all belongs together.

No, to #1 and #3, imo there's less polarisation in today's Dem/Rep 'couple' (actually both of them, Clinton/McCain just the same, none of the three says "out of Iraq now!", they just differ in the how long still and with what effort) and I think Obama has more chances than McGovern had (OK, I rely on what I just googled myself together for McGovern, before my time, and obviously he did not have a lasting place in the memory of people outside the US, dunno?).

--------

An aside: I really don't like this female-vs.-black-challenge in the inter-Dem race (partially the media here goes for that too), it should be about the person (irrespective of any gender/'race' box) and her/his policies! Not "Is Obama 'black' enough?" or "Is Clinton 'female' enough?", but "Who of them might be best for the USA, for all/most Americans?"
I'm a bit sexist too, but to Brynn I have to say: we have a lady here running the country, but it's not that different, only thing is that she does not so much hollering in public than the male Cancellour we had before, she talks controversial things more behind the scenes and generally acts calmer, but that can be somewhat a thing of personality, not just of gender. And: as long as politics is still more male-dominated, females who wanna be on top have to behave 'male' ('male' according to the 'male'/'female' stereotypes, that's another question, in how far these really exist and to which extend they are a matter of upbringing and social environment).
Generally I think the difference of men and women in power is / will be not so much the "what" they do, but the "how".

Last edited by Stephi_B : 02-12-2008 at 08:54 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:43 AM   #10
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I think there's a huge difference between McCain's "we may be there for a hundred years" and Clinton's sixty (ninety?) days. I have no idea what Obama's going to do about getting the troops out of Iraq, but anyone could handle things with more intelligence than Bush has in terms of world culture and opinion.


To tell you the truth, it's the first time in a very long time that we've had three competent candidates to choose from - compared to Monkey Boy - so my concern is at an all-time low. We could flip a coin and do okay with any of them. But Clinton's the only one who's going to pull the country's economy out of the ditch.

McCain is not Nixon, btw. Not as paranoid, knows what it is to be in battle, less likely to lie, break the law, bomb Cambodia secretly....? But of course Iraq is Vietnam all over again. We've exchanged the "red scare" of communists overrunning the country for Muslim terrorists. It's always going to be Orwell's perpetual war which the military industrial complex needs in order to continue to take the lion's share of our taxes and keep in control.
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip intro View Post
what are his policies? i went to his website to find out, and there was no mention of them at all.

isn't it kind of strange how much money he's being given? could it be coming from anti-hillary reps, who want a democratic candidate they can beat easily?

It most definitely could be. Hell, if the Democratic old school peeps don't like Hillary. I , However, respect her for her smarts and her pragmatism.

Obama is nothing but a dream weaver-- I can't even listen to his hope and unity bs.

If obama wins the primary McCalin is a shoe in.
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig johnston View Post
obama = mcgovern
iraq = vietnam
mccain = nixon

discuss

But why is there no equalivalent to the hippie, or the Black Panthers, why have those of us that hate the man so ****ing wimpie. Why are there no protests, blood in the streets ?

And what is the new marijuana ?
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:59 PM   #13
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An argument could be made for the same reason not to elect Clinton, though
(government insider, business as usual, voted for the war twice, too divisive, etc.).

Clinton needs Obama on her ticket (or vice versa) to make it a deadly combo. Problem is, the kids keep squabbling amongst themselves. For two smart people, they can be awfully short-sighted. And I could just smack Bill, btw. Could somebody please put a muzzle on the man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelG View Post
But why is there no equalivalent to the hippie, or the Black Panthers, why have those of us that hate the man so ****ing wimpie. Why are there no protests, blood in the streets ?

And what is the new marijuana ?
That's easy - everybody's busy watching American Idol and Survivor.
And the new marijuana is still marijuana, but with superior potency and cultivation.
As opined by sages far wiser than I:
"People will mobilize when all their neighbors start coming home in body bags."
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Last edited by Brynn : 02-12-2008 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:23 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Tunesmith View Post
If you want to criticize someone's ideology, then feel free to. That's the whole point of political debate, and without it, things will inevitably become stagnant.

But if you want to insult someone based on their race, how is that any different from racism? It seems to me like there is none.
i wonder if michaelG realizes he was outclassed by a 16 year old.

tunesmith, you're a gem.
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Brynn View Post
Obama's getting all his money from small donors.
like myself. skip intro's logic is..... let's call it flawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brynn View Post
I can't help but think of her as a smarter, more vicious and better-positioned political animal to take on the Republicans.
i've been saying this since she announced her candidacy. i support obama but i'm afraid hillary is better prepared to do battle with the underhanded, low-class "swift boat" tactics that the republicans can't win an election without.
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