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Old 07-25-2005, 04:40 AM   #1
priceyfatprude
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Arrow 123456--Shake it, dude! The Gay Marriage Thread, redux

Queer as Folk American version is coming to an end in 2 weeks. Brian & Justin are getting married. (pictured below @ Justin's prom)

http://www.queerasfolk.uk.com/qafusa...acalender1.jpg

& if you're not familiar w/the show, click me

Canada just approved gay marriage.

This quote from the show says it all for me:

Ted: I think God appreciates it even more. Because he created you in his image. At least that's what I was always taught. And since God is love and God doesn't make mistakes, then you must be exactly the way he wants you to be. And that goes for every person, every planet, every mountain, every grain of sand, every song, every tear... and every faggot. We're all his, Emmett. He loves us all.

& this one too:

Brian: We're queer. We don't need marriage. We don't need the sanction of dickless politicians and pedarest priests. We **** who we want to, when we want to. That is our God-given right.

Michael: But it is also our God-given right to have everything that straight people have. Because we're every bit as much human as they are.



We have some newbies here since the last time we went round w/this. Your thoughts?

Please be reminded, no name calling & be respectful as you present your point of view, please.

Last edited by priceyfatprude : 07-25-2005 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:23 PM   #2
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I find absolutely nothing wrong with gay marriage, and I'm proud of the legislators in my country for codifying in law what the courts new to be right and just.

I find the politicians who are trying to come up with arguments to the contrary (king ralph, to name but one) are doing an excelent job of making themselves look out of touch with reality, pig headed and irrelevant.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:19 PM   #3
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I'm all for it. If anybody is crazy (and loving, and generous, and faithful, and devoted) enough to take on all the commitment, responsibility, sharing and sometimes just plain damn hard work of marriage, they deserve nothing but our support and respect, both as a society and as individuals.
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Old 07-26-2005, 09:49 AM   #4
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I am very pleased to think that anyone who wants to marry, can get married.

Why should straight people be the only ones who have to pay alimony, and have In-Laws, and deal with all the other crap that comes with marriage.

Seriously though, I really am happy that gay marriage is legal. It shouldn't have caused such a rucus to begin with. Why would we deny any humans the right to marry as consenting adults? I think they have been discriminated against for far too long when it comes to benefits, insurance, grief, parenting, and the right to raise children with two parents legally wed.

I've argued with those who start their sentences with "I'm not prejudiced BUT..." M says it is unfair to the children of a union where the parents are a gay couple or where the parents are of different coloured skins. She says that the children have a hard life because of their parents. NOT!!!!! The children have a hard life because of people like her who deny their prejudice but share their prejudicial views by thought, word, and deed.
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Old 07-26-2005, 12:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrodite
M says it is unfair to the children of a union where the parents are a gay couple or where the parents are of different coloured skins. She says that the children have a hard life because of their parents. NOT!!!!! The children have a hard life because of people like her who deny their prejudice but share their prejudicial views by thought, word, and deed.
Absolutely. The only potential unfairness is perpetrated by those who treat them differently.

(And I cannot believe there are still people who concern themselves with the "fairness", to the children or anyone else, of a mixed-race union. My God, what is this, antebellum Georgia?)
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Old 07-26-2005, 01:26 PM   #6
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I'm on the fence. My country just made gay marriage law. Spousal and parental rights are assured, and I'm happy about this.

On the other hand, the opposition tabled a rival bill that would have entrenched all the same rights and priveledges afforded heterosexual married couples; the only distinction was that they could be called "civil unions". That seemed eminently reasonable to me.

It all begs the question: what is marriage? Sharing a bed and mailing address for a prescribed period of time? A piece of paper from the government?

I have my own simple definition of marriage: people raising children together. Gender and sexual relationship is irrelevent. Back before semi-effective birth control, you couldn't have sex without children ensuing. Now that we can seperate the two, we've forgotten that the children are the key.

But Con, you say, what about heterosexual couples with a notarized marriage certificate but no kids? Are you saying they're not married.

Yes, I am. They're not spouses, they're lovers. The piece of paper is an empty gesture, a declaration to world of their love, something that's no business but their own in the first place.

Each religion has its own definition of what a marriage should be. I have no problem with that: you can choose your own religion- there are tons out there. But each country has one government, and government has no place in our homes.

Gay or straight, you're married as soon as you're raising children together, and not a minute before.

Are y'all married while she's pregnant? don't have an answer for that yet.
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Old 07-26-2005, 11:06 PM   #7
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So a couple that desperately want to get pregnant but can't, are never actually married or should they adopt to become married?

To whom are you married when you have two children with two different people?

Marriage is the legal and binding agreement and proclamation of a complete union of more than one unit. Businesses or people are the two that come to mind. It is done by forms or ceremony or both.

I don't think that children are a requirement. I think that the willingness to legally bind oneself to another, and to take responsibility for them, as well as give responsibility to them is marriage. It is trust and loyalty, given in a vow, promise and oath sworn in front of the people who can be witnesses.
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Old 07-26-2005, 11:22 PM   #8
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Good point. What about ppl who can't have children?
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priceyfatprude
Good point. What about ppl who can't have children?
Lovers.

They could adopt.

Last edited by Con ate dog : 07-27-2005 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Brain fart
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrodite
So a couple that desperately want to get pregnant but can't, are never actually married or should they adopt to become married?

To whom are you married when you have two children with two different people?

Marriage is the legal and binding agreement and proclamation of a complete union of more than one unit. Businesses or people are the two that come to mind. It is done by forms or ceremony or both.

I don't think that children are a requirement. I think that the willingness to legally bind oneself to another, and to take responsibility for them, as well as give responsibility to them is marriage. It is trust and loyalty, given in a vow, promise and oath sworn in front of the people who can be witnesses.
Your definition makes sense.

But palimony laws cover the legal and financial stuff. A contract to stipulate this isn't exactly a marriage; it's more a business partnership. In a sense, I suppose raising children is, too... if you consider children a form of wealth.

And companionship and love are not things that can be enforced by a contract.
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Old 07-27-2005, 12:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con ate dog
And companionship and love are not things that can be enforced by a contract.
Sadly, raising children doesn't enforce companionship and love either.

At least the marriage contract is a form of announcing intent to pledge oneself to another in entirety for the duration.

Hey. Are they still married after the children are adults and living independently?
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Old 07-27-2005, 07:44 PM   #12
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Marriage is what you make of it, what you want it to be. You are telling millions of people who have taken the time, the effort, and the emotion, to pledge their intent legally, that they aren't married solely because they can't, or choose not to have children.

My husband and I do not have children together; yes, he is my lover. He is also my friend, confidant,partner, and companion; first and foremost, he is my husband. He is the man with whom I chose to sign a contract stating my intentions. We like the state of marital bliss so much, we even renewed our vows so that our mothers could attend. I am sure everyone who attended will be shocked to find out we aren't married.

Marriage is not for everyone, but anyone willing to commit to such a union, should have the right and opportunity to do so. And while gays are fighting for that very right, YOU are saying that those of us who have already done so, but are childless, are not married? What right do you have to diminish those who are married w/o children? Do you also believe races should be separate and not allowed to intermarry? Be lovers? How about different faiths? Why stop at having children?
They could adopt? Please! Do you know how hard it is for some people, good, worthy people, to adopt? And speaking of adoption....
12-14 year old kids are having kids together; are they married? What if they give the child up for adoption? Do they need a divorce in your world?
Who skewed your view?
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con ate dog
Lovers.

They could adopt.
Alright, what if they have no desire for children? Or don't have a spare $15K hanging around?
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Old 07-29-2005, 06:20 PM   #14
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why should straight people be the only ones to screw up marriage?
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Old 07-29-2005, 06:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con ate dog
Your definition makes sense.

But palimony laws cover the legal and financial stuff. A contract to stipulate this isn't exactly a marriage; it's more a business partnership. In a sense, I suppose raising children is, too... if you consider children a form of wealth.

And companionship and love are not things that can be enforced by a contract.
David and James were a couple for nearly twenty years. David passed away and his family took everything. Had they been LEGALLY married James would have been able to hold on to the things he held near and dear.
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